Does this position for the wiper blades look correct, or is there an exact position they should be in as most series i see they are in all different positions
The correct position for the later twin wiper setup when in the off position is horizontal along the bottom of the screen. The earlier individual wiper motors are different.
This is where they seem to finish up when switched off 🤷�♂️🙈😂
I believe the park cam in the motor is set wrong, I seem to recollect it can be altered , but its a long time since I had one apart. Others may know better
That can also be caused by someone assembling the wheelboxes the cable runs in the incorrect way around on the cable.
From memory the cable should leave the wiper motor and go to the top of the left hand wheelbox. The cable then steps down to go to the bottom of the right side wheelbox.
In the parked position they should both be flat at the bottom of the screen like my one pictured below.
Craig.
Perfect, lovely series 👍
Quote from: Craig T on Mar 27, 2024, 12:51 PMThat can also be caused by someone assembling the wheelboxes the cable runs in the incorrect way around on the cable.
From memory the cable should leave the wiper motor and go to the top of the left hand wheelbox. The cable then steps down to go to the bottom of the right side wheelbox.
In the parked position they should both be flat at the bottom of the screen like my one pictured below.
Craig.
So the only way to get the wipers in the position in your pic is via a single motor? I'd like to get Grover's to be like those, but never could figure out how to do it with the FW2 motors.
From memory, in order to enable wipers to park towards the lower centre of the screen on vehicle with a single wiper motor, the cable goes over the top of the wheelbox on the left hand side and under the wheel box on the right hand side. The wheelboxes are positioned accordingly. On Defenders, both wheel boxes are orientated the same way so both wipers sweep together rather than as a mirror image.
All should be easily confirmed and by simple manually operating the drive cable, both wipers should be able to be driven to the parked position. You then need to look at your wiper motor and see how much of an arc the unit is delivering. Your connection to the drive cable to wipers and motor should be done having ensured that your motor is in the park position and then all connected. The fundamental issue here is that your vehicle should have the later wiper motor and wiring. Clearly this wiper motor is not set up properly or you would not have these positioning problems. The correct wiper motor as a new unit is cheap so an easy solution. I'm sure we can find the clamp and rubber mounts if you don't have them. However... If you replace the wiper motor for the correct one, the replacement ones do not usually come with the main gear wheel in the wiper motor and you are expected to transfer your old one. I can only guess that this is because this gear differs depending on application, so its cheapest to do it this way. For obvious reasons, even if it does fit, I would not use the one out of the existing wipe motor in case it is the wrong spec or for another application. You could just ask on here if anybody has a wiper motor they would spare and start fresh.
I think the gear wheel is marked with degrees rotation.
Depending on the motor, some have a plastic ramp fitted to the main gear that snaps into various holes on the underside . This ramp operates the park switch on the motor. I believe it can be fitted in two positions depending on which end of the stroke the park is needed. By repositioning the ramp 180 degrees round the gear, the park position will be reversed. It certainly is on the permanent magnet motors . The clip below shows the gear and the holes 180 degrees round from the fitted ramp
See https://youtu.be/NM-PzQo7qNA
Interesting video ... now added to our section for YouTube vids.
However ... our original poster has the earlier Lucas DR3 motor - totally different.
Given that a 1970 vehicle should have the later Lucas 14W wiper setup one wonders just what bodge the PO has done :confused
Have they mated a DR3 to the later wiper mechanism ?
Are they compatible ?
Looking at the wiper position and sweep probably not.
The 14W motors have the sweep angle stamped on the big motor's gear wheel - usually 110° or 115° being the sweep you get across the screen.
I don't suppose the PO is around to ask if the wipers ever did work properly before the vehicle was left to fester.
As I keep posting/asking ... a decent picture of the DR3 as fixed to the bulkhead and how it is connected to the wiper actuation cable would be very revealing.
Without seeing those pictures I am still of the opinion that the best solution here is to source and fit the correct Lucas 14W wiper motor along with the late 2A wiper control cable and gear boxes ???
:screen
The DR3 and 14W setups are different, the wheelboxes are different as well I suspect the gearbox and wheelboxes should be matched to get the correct arc.
A quick check of parts book confirms that the drive cable and the wheelboxes are different for each wiper motor type...
As I suggested above - isn't this the time to start fresh with the correct parts and do it properly?
So is it this motor that is the correct one, I bought one of these as I thought the DR3A was faulty
It looks right to me. Did you buy a new one or second hand? A photo would help.
If you bought a recent wiper motor then the bonus is that it will likely have the extra brush which will give you the 2-speed function - normal and bonkers fast.
:RHD
This is what I got, does it get wired the same way, earthed to body etc and reduced to 10v or is this normal with the plug etc, I know you sent the diagram before wittsend but your detailed description the last time really helped me, thanks
Good, that's the correct motor for the age of your 2A.
It has the 2-speed function if you so wish to make use of it.
You will need the correct dash switch as found in the Series 3s, this will give you:-
1) wipers at normal speed
2) wipers at fast speed
3) screen washers on, non-latching switch action.
And you'll need an extra wire from the dash switch to the wiper motor's terminal block.
:RHD
This is the switch I got, it's just knowing what colour fits where
Sorry but where does the extra wire go, does the loom that plugs into the motor not have what I need, also does it go through the voltage regulator like the other wiper motor I have as before
The connections are in the wiring diagrams in the website technical section. The wiper motor takes a standard 12V feed - it does not require the use of the voltage regulator - thats only for the gauges.
Perfect as I have a permanent 12v lead ready to go, just the rest I need to figure out
(https://www.wittsend.co.uk/wittsend_technical/images/1speed_wiper_circuit.jpg)
(https://www.wittsend.co.uk/wittsend_technical/images/2speed_wiper_circuit.jpg)
:RHD
Sorry just realised I got this plug in loom which has slightly different colours
You can still easily work it out from Wittsend's wiring diagrams.
I have 4 wires and one earth wire from my plug and a 12v feed, its just knowing where to plug what wires where on my switch etc, sorry for being stupid
Wittsend's diagram above shows the connector locations on the plug for the motor in your harness and also where those wires go. If Wittsend's image is correct, you should be looking at the face view of the connector.
Yeah I know and I am sure I will eventually work it out but just wondering where it relates to on my switch , I have 2 prongs on the top, 2 on the side and one on the bottom, does the 12v feed go to the bottom one etc, thanks to everyone for being patient with me
Each one of those prongs should have a number beside it - 1-8. Once you can see numbers, you can work out the connections.
This is how you wire the dash switch for single speed wipers ....
(https://www.wittsend.co.uk/wittsend_technical/images/wiper_switch.jpg)
(https://www.wittsend.co.uk/wittsend_technical/images/wiper_switch_wiring.jpg)
:RHD
Thanks wittsend but I have different colours, don't think I have any numbers on them and there is only five prongs
There may be only five prongs, but there will be 8 locations where prongs could be. There should be numbers on them - look closely!
Ok I will look again tomorrow, thanks for all the help
What if it isn't numbered
IMG_3767.gif
Seriously though - somebody is bound have one with numbers they can photograph for you.
So I had a look with a magnifying glass and seen the numbers on it, they aren't numbered individually, for example no1 , no7 and no8 on there own, no3 and 4 is one prong and no5 and 6 is another one, I wired it up to what I think going by previous advice and the wipers does one full rotation then just blows fuses, here is how I have temporary wired it up, excuse the wire colours it's only temporary
1) What is the part number of the switch you have bought?
2) Can we see a photo of the rear of the switch with all the wires removed so we can see what terminals are fitted.
3) Can you confirm which coloured wires you have correspond with the ones in Wittsend's diagram?
If its blowing a fuse after a full wipe, we must have a dead short in the park circuit I would suggest.
Post the above information and we will see what we can do.
Is this any help
I think I have only one wire that corresponds and that is green, here is the switch and my wire colours from the plug in loom, the colours are green, blue,red and green, brown and white and black
Can we see a proper photo of your switch showing all the connections face on from the rear?
That's the only picture I have just now, it only has the 5 electrical spade connectors you can see in the picture, pretty sure when you look at the picture the top 2 are no 7 and no8, then working your way down it's 5 and 6, then 3 and 4 then the one you can just see is no1
Not sure if this one helps
Does the switch itself get earthed
This is my wiper motor the black wire goes to earth
Back to basics again. I can't see how your switch (which is a headlight / heater switch), can work if you compare with the wiring diagram above. If your motor is a standard late 2A / Series 3 one without the fast wipe option, then the correct switch would be p/n 555778 which supersedes to PRC9510.
https://www.paddockspares.com/prc5610lucas-wiper-switch-2a-and-heated-front-screen-switch.html
The switch you are using (1H9077L) shows as being used for a heater or headlights on late 2A.
I'm going to dig one of those 1H9077L switches out of my collection and have a look at the connections, because I'm not 100% convinced that the wiring layout is quite right. I can see how it could be made to work as a 2 speed wiper switch, but can't see how the diagram we are asking you to follow can match the switch you have, so I'm totally confused also. Let me have a play and see what I find out. I've got to find a switch first!
That's very much appreciated, the switch was advertised as a wiper switch
I know - I checked as well. I pretty sure I have seen them used as wiper switches for 2 speed motors, but if you try and use the diagram, there aren't physically some terminals in the locations on your switch.
Hi Big dog
Maybe this might help the single speed wiper switch is to the left of the 2 side headlight switch.
This is on the 69 Nada.
Victor
Thanks Dormobile but I am going with the 2 speed wiper motor
What about using a Series 3 2 speed combined wiper/washer switch?
If you have one, lock it up at night - starting to get difficult to find good ones!
It may be the best option, but I'm going to do some thinking round the headlight / heater switch.
Hi Big Dog
I realize that, it was just to show a single speed layout.
Those switches with all the terminals are hard to figure out, what I normally do is take a piece of paper and a pen and and ohm meter and star checking the switch terminals when its flipped into various positions.
That may or may not help you on the other end but at least you will know what terminal does what on the switch.
Good luck
Victor
Quote from: diffwhine on Mar 29, 2024, 07:38 PMIf you have one, lock it up at night - starting to get difficult to find good ones!
I've got a spare one knocking around somewhere. I didn't realise they were rare. I'll have to rummage around to find it.
Edit. Had a look on line. There's a genuine Land Rover used switch for a staggering £399.99!!!
Emberton sell them but they look different from the original.
Would it be something like this
I would be interested in buying it Alan if you have the correct one
They are available, but the cheapest one I can find is about £70.
Charlie Emberton does an alternative one for just over £50.
It would be best if we can bottom out using the 2A Headlight switch - much cheaper. Hold fire on the Series 3 route until we've decided if this will do. Have you got a switch for the windscreen wash?
I've got to find it. I'm sure I had 2 when I gave one to Ian when he fitted the new bulkhead so that he could wire it in.
I won't be getting rid of it in a hurry anyway.
The ones on your photos Bigdog are not the original type.
I think I saw one in my pile of acquired bits earlier this week, so if it ends up being a Series 3 switch, we can probably come to a solution.
That Series 3 switch is also available without the wash switch attached under p/n 579207. Much cheaper at £35 + VAT, but would still mean a separate wash switch.
Yeah I would like to keep original if possible
Found the Lucas Spec for the 1H9077L 2A headlight switch:
lucas-31788-31956-34281-57sa-toggle-switch-1h9077-(2)-46-p.jpg
With the switch up, terminal numbers 1, 6 and 7 are connected
With the switch in the middle position, terminal numbers 1, 4, 6 and 7 are connected
With the switch in the bottom position, terminal numbers 1, 4, 7 and 8 are connected
The question is how to make that work for a wiper motor. My head hurts, so I'm going to think about it tomorrow...
Alan's late 2A wiring diagram shows how to wire that switch to a 1 speed motor.
Should be easy to work out where 2nd speed goes to.
If you make 4 the 1st speed and 8 the 2nd speed that should work
Forget that 4 would still be powered in 3rd position
Here's the genuine Land Rover 2 speed switch with washer pump switch attached.
Possibly this switch.
https://sailok.com/cars/Prefect_Wipers.html
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143112836584?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-153316-527457-8&mkcid=2&itemid=143112836584&targetid=4584757337645555&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=554427144&mkgroupid=1298524317493059&rlsatarget=pla-4584757337645555&abcId=9313282&merchantid=87779&msclkid=ccafcd409e3715367c2aab4773f66259
diagram
That looks like it solves the issue. Well done!
I've had a look at my Land Rover Optional Parts List and the wash/wiper switch in my photo is for 2A's from suffix G onwards as well as Series 3's.
So do I have the wrong switch as I don't have a anything to connect onto at no2 position
Is your Land Rover a suffix G onwards? It my be worth looking at the Series 2 Optional Parts Book if it's not.
You can see from the photo that the later switch has 4 terminals.
1970 series 2a 109 ex military chassis no 25117473 G
Quote from: Bigdog on Mar 29, 2024, 05:15 PMI think I have only one wire that corresponds and that is green, here is the switch and my wire colours from the plug in loom, the colours are green, blue,red and green, brown and white and black
Spread the wires out on that plug and take a photo showing what all the colours are looks to me like more than 3
Put 12V on terminal six of the switch you have and using a test lamp find out which terminal are live in off position and then test in 1st position and same again in 2nd position.
That is the wire colours when I was playing about with the switch, red/green, green, blue, brown/white and black
I suspect that the military spec for the wiper switch etc wouldn't be the same as for the civilian version.
Your wires are completely different from the ones attached to my wiper/washer switch.
That's the wires that came with the plug in loom for the wiper motor
Still need to know the wire colours and the number of them ,the colours they connect to when plugged into the motor would also help. or the motor pin numbers for each colour.
Then I will draw you a diagram.
Sorry not really sure what you mean, I have said what the wire colours are and it just plugs into the park switch on the motor
Having found and successfully downloaded the series 2 Optional Parts List, the wiper/washer switch is the same as the Series 3 one.
So do I need another switch
As yours is ex military I don't know what switch was fitted initially. If you want 2 speed wipers then yes and I suspect the switch in my post #62 will do as yours is a suffix G.
There are 4 terminals on the switch and 5;wires going to it as 1 wire is for the screen washer pump. If there's 4 wires coming from the wiper motor there's a possibility it's a 2 speed.
In my 1975 Series 3 it already had a 2 speed wiper motor already fitted but only a single speed switch so it was just a matter of connecting the wires to the corresponding terminals on the 2 speed switch with the extra wire being connected to the remaining one as there was a wire in the loom for the fast speed. I found it behind the instrument cluster just lying there. It's a pale green. Whether your existing wiper motor is 2 speed I wouldn't know.
Diagram 25 57 in the downloadable Optional Parts List shows the layout. It's on the website under brochures and manuals in the members section under Technical.
(If a computer idiot like me can find it, anyone can).
Big dog, I've been reading through this thread and your pictures aren't helping.
First thing, the switch. It looks like Diffwhine has identified your incorrect switch, but it should be useable to operate the two speeds, but won't have the third washer switch.
We need to know which coloured wire on the new short loom goes to which terminal in the black plug on the end of that loom. Either use a multimeter on ohms or pull the outer sleeve off so you can visibly trace them.
I don't know the terminal positions on a single motor, but some one here will.
With that information we can work out which wire in the new loom needs to be live at the correct time.
To repeat, without knowing which colour does to which terminal inside the block, we're guessing as those colours don't match the originals.
Jon
Ok, getting somewhere,
Ignore the switch for the minute,
With your loom plugged into the motor,
1,Black wire to earth
2, green/red to 12v supply- motor should turn slow
3, disconnect green/red and connect blue- motor should turn fast
This will identify the three wires that control the motor itself. If this works on the two speeds, we can work out the parking which is the other two wires
Post the result👍 and we'll go from there
Jon
Hi jon, thanks for your advice and everyone's advice it's a fantastic forum , I will give that a try this afternoon
Update, I did as you said except I connected used no3 prong for live and when I connected green/red to position 3 and wiper went slow, then connected blue to no3 and it went fast, here is more pictures hope these help, I also have my washers working through a separate switch
What 2 speed switch will you be using?
I have done the test on the one in the pictures that I bought as a 2 speed wiper switch
... and ???
And what, I don't understand your reply wittsend, I have done a part test as requested and waiting on jon getting back to me
He meant does the switch operate both speeds. You could try the blue wire on spare switch terminals until the motor works.
Yes it works as per the test requested but haven't tried anything else as I wasn't sure what to do until I heard back from here
What I meant was if you leave the green/red wire connected to number 3 switch terminal and connect the blue one to any of the others until the faster speed works.
Hi Alan , I can give that a try, then it would just be the other 2 to connect somewhere
Well done big dog, that's a good start.
The next thing is to connect the motor through the switch (no parking feature yet)
Connect your live wire from the cars loom (ideally one that turns off with the ignition switch-usuallly green) to terminal number 4 on the switch.
Connect the red/green to terminal 7 on the switch
Connect the blue to terminal 8 on the switch
Hopefully, with the ignition on the switch will be off, then slow, then fast.
Because you've got the wrong switch we need to prove each step.
Try this tomorrow and report back. If this works we can look at the parking bit
Jon
Perfect, I will try it tomorrow, thanks
I have done that and it works, not a massive difference between slow and fast
Mine was like that but with the engine running and alternator charging there is (or should be).
This is the 2 speed wiper motor harness from autosparks, is it worth buying it, it's longer than the one I got and it already has the connections on it
Yes.
I have now ordered the loom and hopefully the correct switch now
Which switch are you using?
One that was recommended on here, similar to what I have but an additional prong at no2 to take a connector,
You mean a toggle switch. I wondered if you'd gone for the later combined washer/wiper one.
This one
Evening, apologies for not getting on here sooner.
Great news on finding the correct switch, I couldn't find a way of getting park on your first switch without using a diode.
I notice the autosparks loom also has the correct colours and connectors so it's easy now.
From the new autosparks loom:
Black- earth (ring connector on loom)
Red/green-no.6 on switch
Blue-no.8
Brown/green-no.2
Green-no.4 (note this has a 'piggyback' spade with an exposed 'male' spade.This is where your switched live fits onto so it feeds into the switch and also across to the motor
Hopefully this should see you sorted
(and thanks to others for the switch identification-it's difficult diagnosing remotely, especially when you haven't got those parts yourself, it helped loads 👍)
Jon
Thanks jon, I will hopefully have the loom and switch later this week and I will give it a go, hopefully that will be us sorted, thanks to everyone
Wipers now work perfectly, many thanks to everyone
You just need some rain now ....
:screen
I call that a good result. Glad we got there in the end!
Yip fantastic 👍