Hi my starter needs either replacing or refurbing. If anyone has any advice on where I should send it/ buy new please let me know.
Im in Wiltshire. Should mention its a Powerlite Unit RAC 424 Petrol
Petrol or diesel ???
If petrol get a hi-torque WOSP type starter.
If diesel then get a 200/300 Tdi starter.
Auto Electrical Supplies - Starter Motors (https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/c/land-rover)
Unless yours is a pristine factory spec restored example then you want an original spec starter.
Else - if yours is an everyday driver and you rely on it getting you to work then go for a more efficient and kinder on the battery hi-torque starter :gold-cup
(https://www.series2club.co.uk/2023_new_forum/Smileys/wittsends/starting_handle.gif)
I can vouch for the WOSP on a petrol engine. It draws only 1,400 watts, just under 117 amps, far less than a standard motor. Some rewiring is needed as it's a pre engaged starter with an integral solenoid.
As it happens, I recently had my diesel starter motor rebuit by a man in his 70's, who has been doing them for 50 years.
I mentioned the constant recommendations for more modern, or 200/300Tdi starter motors.
Without saying anything, he took me outside his workshop and pointed at a couple of these starter motors, lying in a small pile of scrap, waiting for the skip.
He also pointed out how light they weighed, compared to mine.
He then said :"Yours will last 50 years, don't change it".
I won't....
They're much lighter and more compact, draw less current and are geared differently from the outdated bulky, weighty originals and they're much easier to fit. This is a rare example of modern technology being applicable to classic vehicles. I'd never go back to the old bulky starter motor now.
I suspect the 2 mentioned motors were scrap ones beyond repair or refurbishment.
Does your refurbisher have a wheel screwdriver to remove the field coils? Sounds like he ought to.
... not forgetting there are cheapo pirated copies on eBay etc. Get starter of a decent recognised brand and it should last a very long time.
:RHD
WOSP is a reputable brand.
If you want to keep your original starter motor I'd take it to the nearest auto electrician and ask them to refurb it.
Quote from: Alan Drover on Mar 01, 2024, 08:11 PMWOSP is a reputable brand.
Alan, you've a 17H there. You'll know how you run better than me. I assume a 17H flywheel blah, thus you get away with a pre-engage modern set-up. Best of all setups if you can get it, only I'm pretty sure yours is advice few can follow.
Yes so I should mention its a Powerlite Unit RAC 424 Petrol
Quote from: NoBeardNoTopKnot on Mar 02, 2024, 08:22 AMQuote from: Alan Drover on Mar 01, 2024, 08:11 PMWOSP is a reputable brand.
Alan, you've a 17H there. You'll know how you run better than me. I assume a 17H flywheel blah, thus you get away with a pre-engage modern set-up. Best of all setups if you can get it, only I'm pretty sure yours is advice few can follow.
The 17H was originally fitted with a pre engaged starter motor which was a heavy bulky item. The WOSP can be easily fitted without having to remove the downpipe.
It has a 9 tooth pinion unlike the 2.25 petrol which, from memory, has an 11 tooth pinion.
I'm learning, I run all 17H. Seems you attack this from a different direction. I know the Series starter won't mesh to a 17H. Do you run the 17H flywheel with your WOSP?
Yes, and the Series 3 clutch to match the gearbox. I'm using Series 3 manifolds and Zenith 36IV. It runs very well on this set up and at a recent plug change all 4 plugs removed were an even brick red colour.
If you do want to get your original refurbished and don't have anyone local you are happy to use then I can recommend Lancashire Rotating Electrics. Very good for starters, alternators and dynamos.
Alec
Hi Alec,
Great to see you back on here!
Quote from: agg221 on Mar 02, 2024, 02:26 PMIf you do want to get your original refurbished and don't have anyone local you are happy to use then I can recommend Lancashire Rotating Electrics. Very good for starters, alternators and dynamos.
Alec
Hi Alec, as Diffwhine has said, it's good to see you back.
Rather than send a massively heavy starter motor to Lancashire (which is where I think your recommendation must be) I used Halstead Auto Electrics, which is close to both of us.
The founder has long-since retired in favour of his son, who does all the "modern stuff". So he has been "relegated" to a smaller shed on the site.
He wanted to stop work years ago, but there is such a demand for his services on "out of date" electrical items for classic tractors and other old vehicles, that he can't fully retire.
(He rebuilt a SI dynamo for me, at least 20 years ago).
Quote from: agg221 on Mar 02, 2024, 02:26 PMIf you do want to get your original refurbished and don't have anyone local you are happy to use then I can recommend Lancashire Rotating Electrics. Very good for starters, alternators and dynamos.
Alec
Good to know these are not far from me. I've used G&S Auto Electrical in Chorley.
Thanks Mark and Charles,
The Series 2 has been making very slow progress as getting what I wanted in the way that I wanted took a lot of time and care, not least in finding people and parts. However, the bulkhead is now finally done (only six years!) and there is other progress, particularly with the engine at the moment. As such Charles it is very timely to hear of somewhere rather closer than Lancashire, as I will shortly have a dynamo which needs looking at.
Glad it was useful Andy - I know of them because in the interim I have been doing a lot of work on a canal boat with a very vintage engine and they are -the- place in the country to get the starter motor sorted out. Magnetos however are a whole different matter (yes, on a diesel engine!)
Alec
Thanks all and Wittsend Ive decided to go with your advice.
Quote from: Exile on Mar 02, 2024, 06:43 PMQuote from: agg221 on Mar 02, 2024, 02:26 PMIf you do want to get your original refurbished and don't have anyone local you are happy to use then I can recommend Lancashire Rotating Electrics. Very good for starters, alternators and dynamos.
Alec
He wanted to stop work years ago, but there is such a demand for his services on "out of date" electrical items for classic tractors and other old vehicles, that he can't fully retire.
Sounds like an opportunity for an apprentice! I'd love to pick up the old skills and tricks before he retires... all his knowledge and experience!
Apologies for highjacking the thread but does anyone know of anywhere that refurbs starter motors in Yorkshire. I've taken mine off and whilst it turns freely by hand it wouldn't run when hooked up to a battery. I had a look inside and it looks minging. If it's not worth a refurb how easy is it to fit a Wosp style starter on a positive earth 2.25petrol engine with a 251 serial number. Images show the state of the starter.
Thanks
Jamie
Can you see any date stamps in the side of the casing on you starter there?
I haven't seen one with the brushed like that for some time. The more normal type of 2286 petrol starter is like this one I think which is actually a 1955 2 litre starter but same thing fitted on my 67 IIA as well.
That starter is actually quite clean inside, Take one apart that has been off road in the past and it will likely be full of mud. You could try simply cleaning it and fitting new brushes but I'm surprised it didn't run at all on a battery. It may have a broken winding somewhere in the magnets.
Craig.
That starter looks like a Lucas 2M100 I previously had one fitted years ago and had issues, mainly sticking and having to give it a whack. Local auto electrician advised me to get hold of a Lucas M418G.
Well I've just had another play with the starter motor and hooked it up to a booster pack. It does work immediately on getting 12v so I'm assuming the jump leads or battery I used yesterday are on the Fritz.
It is as andyjb suggested a Lucas 2M100, other numbers I can make out are 306680 33 82. I think the 33 82 relates to week and year of manufacture but correct me if I'm wrong.
I've opened it up and pulled the armature out and it's all pretty grubby in there. What's the best thing to clean it with please?
Here's some pics.
Last time I took mine to my local autofactors and got a reconditioned one back on exchange. Not the same one, but still a rebuild period Lucas item. I think it was around £90 at the time (for the Carawagon, around 12 years ago). A good independent factors will probably know a place to send them to.
Quote from: Littlelegs on Mar 05, 2024, 07:43 PMWell I've just had another play with the starter motor and hooked it up to a booster pack. It does work immediately on getting 12v so I'm assuming the jump leads or battery I used yesterday are on the Fritz.
It is as andyjb suggested a Lucas 2M100, other numbers I can make out are 306680 33 82. I think the 33 82 relates to week and year of manufacture but correct me if I'm wrong.
I've opened it up and pulled the armature out and it's all pretty grubby in there. What's the best thing to clean it with please?
Here's some pics.
Post a pic of the end of the rotor where the brushes fit as that is the part that wears and causes issue with connection to brushes , how long are the brushes?
For cleaning it I would use a simple solvent cleaner.
Paint thinner might be a bit strong and effect the varnish on the copper wires but a solvent such as brake cleaner should flush it out in no time.
If you have nothing else, washing up liquid, hot water, old paint brush, and the kitchen sink will probably work, just leave on a radiator to dry for a day afterwards and reassemble.
You can probably find new brushes if you look about but you may need a big soldering iron or a pencil gas torch to remove the solder joints and re-solder the new ones. The end of the commutator where the brushes run, can be skimmed in a lathe ideally but failing that, some wet and dry or Scotchbrite pad will polish it up again.
Craig.
Quote from: Craig T on Mar 06, 2024, 08:34 AMIf you have nothing else, washing up liquid, hot water, old paint brush, and the kitchen sink will probably work, just leave on a radiator to dry for a day afterwards and reassemble.
Don't get caught using the kitchen sink for washing Land Rover parts. It won't end well... As for leaving it on a radiator - that would be the final nail in my coffin.
Somewhere in my collection of photos, I have a picture of a Rover V8 engine in the shower of our bathroom at a house we had in SW London. The hot pressure washer is running outside with the lance and hose through the window. The engine is being jet washed off in the shower by a mate dressed in a full NBC suit.
Those were the days... A true Men Behaving Badly house...
If I find the picture, I'll post it.
We had VW and land rover engines under the kitchen table on more than one occassion when I lived with my parents. My mum was very forebearing
Peter
The trick is to wait for your other half to go out shopping ....
Quote from: Wittsend on Mar 06, 2024, 09:34 AMThe trick is to wait for your other half to go out shopping ....
Doesn't work Alan - she will eventually come home!
In my experience, divorce is the only option.....
I ve just finished fitting the Wosp starter I was recommended in this thread. I followed the Wittsend detailed breakdown and everything is now running as it should. And Im no mechanic.