Many will be unaware that Wales has introduced a 20 MPH speed limit on most previous 30 MPH speed limit areas !
If you live in Wales as I do and object to such nanny state intervention and would like things to be returned to how they were please sign the official petition linked to below.
https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548
If you are in another part of the UK this could easily happen where YOU live as well so again I'd urge you to sign the petition.
Thank you,
Geoff.
I have to say there is limited Series content here but having said this even my Series dislikes 20 mph
Salisbury has had a 20 limit within the city itself for years. It's going to happen all over , like or not. We all have a vote , use it .
20 mph is ok for residential streets but not a blanket coverage for all urban streets. My road and the neighbouring roads are purely residential and I drive them at 20 because of all the parked cars to get to the main road where I can safely do 30 and to make that road 20 would be insane.
My Series 3 is happy at 20 in top.
Signed in support, hopefully this nonsense gets stopped.
Thanks Dave :cheers-man
Currently 269,000 signatures :RHD
Given England is x 18 the population of Wales this is the equivalent of
over 8.5 % of the population of England or 4.8 million signatures --- a lot of people !
I have done it too and passed to my Welsh friends.
20mph round schools/shops etc is fine - but that is common sense, but a blanket one is not a good idea and another lazy implementation of someone's apparent good idea. ???
These days everything seems to been dumbed down (to the lowest common denominator).
It's a limit not a target. :ranting
Quote from: RATA1 on Sep 20, 2023, 12:04 PMI have done it too and passed to my Welsh friends.
20mph round schools/shops etc is fine - but that is common sense, but a blanket one is not a good idea
I've signed up and passed it on :ranting
I fully support the 20mph limit, so I won't be signing or passing it on. Hopefully it will prove to be a success and can be rolled out elsewhere.
Regardless of anyone's views on road safety,
will the 20 mph limit in Wales, (in certain areas),
increase or decrease air pollution in those areas ???
I like the way the Welch Assembly has passed on the speed limits selection to local councils. The default in the old 30mph areas is 20 mph but local governments can implement easements , but of course that all costs addition money from local residents !
St Brides Major (just south of Bridgend) has had a 20 limit for the past few years, as part of the trial. Exactly a mile from end to end, it's now split into a 30 and 20 length.
The road through neighbouring Wick, probably little more than half a mile long, now has 30/20/30 sections. This in addition to pedestrian controlled traffic lights.
I've yet to see evidence of dramatic reductions in road casualties locally.
20mph Wow! Stuff of dreams. One day mine will be that fast.
Quote from: NoBeardNoTopKnot on Sep 20, 2023, 01:47 PM20mph Wow! Stuff of dreams. One day mine will be that fast too.
Best buy a 101 "
I see there are now about 350,000 votes against the 20 mph limit but I doubt our Welsh goverment will consider taking any notice :shakinghead
Hi,
More years ago than I care to remember, the UK introduced a 50mph limit ... I can't remember exactly what circumstances.
The accident rate increased, due to long trains of closely bunched cars, all following a law-abiding leader, resulting in bunching.
Cars usually, or used to, travel at their most economical, by accelerating rapidly to their "best condition" ...usually at 50% of the maximum BHP RPM .... which will probably be equal to the maximum torque RPM.
602
Looking at the welsh government map of roads impacted, I'd say if you live outside cardiff you'd be unlikely to see a change. I think the media has portrayed (certainly outside wales) this as all 30 mph road have become 20mph, whereas the reality is 30mph roads in built up areas may have become 20mph roads, unless the local authority has exempted them (and quite a few have been exempted)
(you may need to turn on the various layers on the map to see the 20 and 30mph roads)
https://datamap.gov.wales/maps/roads-affected-by-changes-to-the-speed-limit-on-re/view#/
For example it seems no roads in swansea have been changed, whereas most in cardiff are now 20mph.
Personally I think it's a good thing in built up areas and would like to see it extended to some country roads as well
I'm outside of Cardiff and where I live there are a LOT of roads affected - I don't mean side roads on housing estates I mean on main linking roads.
My road back from town is one and a half miles long to my house ( it does extend further ) and travelling at 15 to 17 mph all the way is insane .... note it is a wide road, not crammed with houses, no schools, no hospitals either.
You want it extended well each to their own of course but I'd say be carefull what you wish for you may end up regretting
Quote from: John on Sep 21, 2023, 02:54 PMI see there are now about 350,000 votes against the 20 mph limit but I doubt our Welsh goverment will consider taking any notice :shakinghead
They / he won't (Dripford ) take any notice at all and will come up with all sorts of tripe to justify it.
Folks have to protest of course !!
Think back to the Poll Tax from Maggy Thatcher if nobody complained then we'd still have it now ....
350,000 signatures in Wales is the equivalent to 6.3 Million signatures in England alone !! pro rata total population
The 50 mph national speed limit was introduced during the wars in the Middle East to conserve fuel. It got as far as motorists were issued with petrol and diesel ration coupons. Fortunately it didn't get that far.
1973 petrol crisis when they issued petrol coupons ...
Still have mine - just in case :cheers-man
(https://www.series2club.co.uk/gallery/technical/images/petrol_coupons.jpg)
Quote from: w3526602 on Sep 21, 2023, 03:59 PMCars usually, or used to, travel at their most economical, by accelerating rapidly to their "best condition" ...
No. Accelerating rapidly is the worst thing you can do for fuel economy.
I couldn't remember the year but I remember I was running a MK1 1965 Austin 1800 at that time.
You would have thought political decisions like this would first have been piloted/canvased to gauge public support or else you're just helping to vote yourself out of office. And assuming that they were, we have to assume many/most of the public agree.
I don't like these blanket restrictions, much better to identify specific risk areas, such as schools, and use speed cameras & physical measures to help enforcement.
Whatever your opinion though, there's no ignoring these very stark figures.
Apparently, these are the results of a pedestrian being hit by a vehicle travelling at:
40 mph, you have a 90% chance of being killed.
35 mph, you have a 50% chance of being killed.
30 mph, you have a 20% chance of being killed.
20 mph, you have a 2.5% chance of being killed.
If you are run over(as against being hit) by a vehicle, speed wont really affect the outcome. I wonder if the stats differentiate between the two scenarios ???
Whilst I agree with a 20mph limit outside schools in school hours are there any figures taken on air quality in these areas to compare traffic at 20mph in 3rd gear? or 30mph in 4th gear....
... just a thought???
Quote from: Old Hywel on Sep 21, 2023, 06:32 PMQuote from: w3526602 on Sep 21, 2023, 03:59 PMCars usually, or used to, travel at their most economical, by accelerating rapidly to their "best condition" ...
No. Accelerating rapidly is the worst thing you can do for fuel economy.
"Coast and burn" is actually a recognised hypermiling technique. Accelerating rapidly within the engine's peak torque rev band is the most fuel efficient way of gaining speed.
Quote from: Worf on Sep 22, 2023, 06:12 PMIf you are run over(as against being hit) by a vehicle, speed wont really affect the outcome. I wonder if the stats differentiate between the two scenarios ???
A good question, although don`t you first have to be hit before you are runover, unless you're laying on the road that is ???
The faster you are traveling, the greater the kinetic energy brought to bear, therefore your speed at the time of impact with the pedestrian is a key determining factor in the outcome.
Signed. 400K+ now
I'm all for 20mph in selected danger areas, not a blanket change as there will be more pollution and problems for deliveries and carers, district nurses etc
Not in wales atm but suspect this may be my next purchase for an around town car
My personal experience of the 20mph speed limits in London is that the traffic actually seems to move quicker and more smoothly. Despite the limit being decreased, actual average speeds are up, and the bunching and clogging of junctions is lessened considerably without those who choose to sprint between them. The last time I crossed town it took me about ten minutes less, even without going over 20, than it used to take me at the same time of day.
Anecdotal evidence is just an anecdote though. Your experience may vary.
I think urban 20mph limits are no bad thing; providing those who extract the urine actually face some penalty.
The main thing I've noticed so far is a confusing inconsistency. Some signs have been changed to 20, most not. But it's not clear yet whether that means they are specific exceptions or simply that they haven't got round to changing them yet.
There's one road near us where new flashing red 20 signs have been erected next to the old 30 signs, and another where the limit in one direction has been changed but not in the other.
The official leaflet says it's easy to tell- street lights mean it's 20. But that's obviously not true.
Anyway we apparently have a year "to get used to it".
I wonder if being hit by a modern car at 30 would do less damage to a pedestrian than being hit by a series 2 at 20.
Quote from: Rog-from-Bix on Sep 24, 2023, 04:41 PMI wonder if being hit by a modern car at 30 would do less damage to a pedestrian than being hit by a series 2 at 20.
Being hit by either at 20 would be exponentially more survivable than being hit by them at 30.
If legislation is going to have a detrimental effect on the way we drive, I'd sooner keep driving my series at a lower speed than have to drive something else.
Quote from: GlenAnderson on Sep 22, 2023, 06:45 PMQuote from: Old Hywel on Sep 21, 2023, 06:32 PMQuote from: w3526602 on Sep 21, 2023, 03:59 PMCars usually, or used to, travel at their most economical, by accelerating rapidly to their "best condition" ...
No. Accelerating rapidly is the worst thing you can do for fuel economy.
"Coast and burn" is actually a recognised hypermiling technique. Accelerating rapidly within the engine's peak torque rev band is the most fuel efficient way of gaining speed.
I agree ^^^, depending on road conditions, gaining speed and moving into top gear quickly, (within legal speed limits) can be much more fuel efficient than doddering along in low gear. If the road is reasonably long, you`ll be in high gear for a proportionately much longer time. The opposite applies to the Captain Slow approach. Caveat: always drive within the limits & capabilities of you & the car. By the way, I`m not saying you should be ragging the arse out of it.
Glen, you mention Coast & Burn, I think its worth noting that whilst coasting is not illegal in the UK, you could end up being prosecuted for not being in full control of a vehicle, this might effect your insurance to. Of course they would first have to establish that you were or had been coasting anyway ;)
But having said that, I have used coasting in a limited way, when approaching traffic lights and roundabouts I will often knock it into neutral and just gently roll up to a stop. I was about to say just be sensible and use your common sense, but those words, and their meaning, aren't understood by everybody :shakinghead There I've said it anyway :cheers
If the eco-warriors get their way we'll all soon be needing one of these :confused
(https://www.series2club.co.uk/images/man_with_red_flag.gif)
(20 mph will be but a dream)
:snowman
Around here, nobody seems to be taking any notice and still doing 30mph apart from past the school which seems the sensible thing. Havent seen any plods at all on my travels so far.
Petition is now reaching the number of people who voted for Dripford at the last Senedd election, but that fact will probably be ignored :confused
Around her we have sections of roads with a 30mph sign at one end and 20mph at the other :confused
and I have noticed again round here you can drive for over a mile in a built up area with no signs at all but I think they were like that before, I was once told that if lamp posts were a certain distance apart??? the speep limit was 30mph but may not now be true and hard to measure when you drive along. There is nothing wrong with speed limits but they need to be clearly signed or marked :thud
The lamp post rule still applies for 30mph. Any other speed restrictions must have repeater signs every so often on lampposts or roadside.
Round here there are so many potholes that 20 mph is a real challenge :shakinghead
(https://www.series2club.co.uk/images/man_with_red_flag.gif)
Maybe we should withhold paying road tax ???
Oh ... hang on a moment :thud
I can remember in the 1950's commercial vehicles were limited to 20 mph. They had painted 20's on the rear mudguards. Even my Dinky Toy Foden lorry had a 20 on it.
^^^^ That must be Mark Drakefords motivation ( or dementure coming out Lol !! )
He is retiring soon so maybe he'll get his own Dinky Fodens out
Petition currently at 456,192 signatures
or ... the equivalent of 8,250,000 English signatures pro rata whole population age .... quite a few people !
Hi,
My son, when young, assured me that 40mph was not fast.
I suggested that he closed his eyes ... and walked into a lamp-post at sub-4mph.
602
I dont think Drakeford can even drive.
The drivers who used to creep about at just over 20mph are now doing around 10mph.
Braking going uphill :confused
I'm afraid the man reminds me of a senile turtle dressed up as an undertaker.
We have very poor "leaders" ... our great nation deserves so much better.
Gone are the days when real statesmen ran the country and Britain ruled the waves.
Let's not list/name these losers here, we know who they are.
Maybe they should hold a referendum on the 20 mph and the ULEZ thing ???
but - 1st rule of politics - never hold a referendum if you don't know the outcome :shakinghead
Someone must be voting for these people :confused
You get what you (don't) vote for.
Use you vote (https://www.series2club.co.uk/2023_new_forum/Smileys/wittsends/vote.gif)
Quote from: Wittsend on Oct 03, 2023, 02:29 PMWe have very poor "leaders" ... our great nation deserves so much better.
Let's not list/name these losers here, we know who they are.
Use you vote (https://www.series2club.co.uk/2023_new_forum/Smileys/wittsends/vote.gif)
1/ Yes
2/ Yes, sorry
3/ Yes the vote ........... the days of the Welsh blindly voting for any blind deaf and dum buffoon wearing a coloured rosette because their parents did are still with us.
Thing is ... it's not just Wales, it's all of the UK :shakinghead
Condolences sincerely offered :shakinghead
Quote from: geoff on Sep 19, 2023, 07:14 PMMany will be unaware that Wales has introduced a 20 MPH speed limit on most previous 30 MPH speed limit areas !
If you live in Wales as I do and object to such nanny state intervention and would like things to be returned to how they were please sign the official petition linked to below.
https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548
If you are in another part of the UK this could easily happen where YOU live as well so again I'd urge you to sign the petition.
"20mph speed limits on Welsh roads may return to 30mph by end of the year"https://news.sky.com/story/welsh-government-set-to-announce-changes-to-20mph-limits-13121282)
Nothing certain yet, but could we be seeing the vox populi overcoming the autocratic dictates of a power-hungry minority?
Bloke who brought it in was is a cycling fanatic and has now resigned "to spend more time with his family". First minister has now retired and couldnt even drive. New first minister is already mired in controversy. I am not holding my breath for any sensible decisions.
It's the default speed limit in Highland Council area. This includes trunk roads through towns. Scotland will have a default 20mph limit in the near future.
In Scotland we have had a programme of reduced speed limits.
As a result, the number of killed or seriously injured, on the road network, has dropped.
Surely better for all.
Vox Populi my ***** !
Let's not forget that it cost the best part of 40 million pounds to put up these new speed limit signs and given the size ( small ) of the political apology it will cost another 5 million pounds to put some of the speed signs back.
" They " have been embarrassed and shocked at the outcry over 20 mph and are afraid of losing votes and nothing more.
This reversion is only a sound bite to appease folks so they will feel better and switch off from the issue, nothing will change ubfortunately.
Saving lives ?
Let us not forget that " they " have said ( on the record ) that there is no need for expensive road projects and road repairs when all they have to do is reduce the speed limits instead.
This road speed reduction isn't really a case of human welfare by virtue of a policy decision it is the side effect of a smokescreen to cover up the policy of not spending money on our roads.
Saving lives ? I was speaking the other day to a friend of mine who is a paramedic, opinion there was that he finds it harder and takes longer to get to an incident as a direct result of the new 20 limits.
Anyway what would I know ???
All I know is that the band D council tax in my area is more than £300 more expensive than a different council area ! - different political colour and a distinct lack of vanity projects being undertaken.
Vanity projects !!!!
" They " want to increase the number of Welsh MP's from 60 up to 96
Where is the money coming from ?
I feel another smokescreen coming our way, side benefit is it will cover up the blue smoke from my Land Rovers exhaust as I toddle along up the road being chased by Greta
I also feel moderation coming along and hopefully a locked topic.
Drive safely :pedal :pedal :pedal
Hi Geoff,
I agree, but aren't you being a little harsh about my Vox Populi? Translated it means "Voice Of The People" and I used it to demonstrate the apparent success of the very petition that you had recommended at the start of this topic, after all, a petition is a Voice Of The People.
And the outcry you refer to, "They " have been embarrassed and shocked at the outcry over 20 mph", is actually the Vox Populi that you now appear to be rubbishing, surely not? ;)
Life, like driving, is full of risk, and wouldn`t life be bloody dull without some. Should we ban mountain climbing because someone might fall & get hurt or ban Rugby, a hard fought & physically demanding sport, and those who choose to play it, know the risks, so the last thing they want is some busybody intellectual telling them they can`t play it anymore.
But unlike sport, vehicles and speed are an integral part of all our lives and the, albeit unintended, consequences of interfering in it, are very real. Many of those consequences have been listed in other posts.
Call it empire/legacy building, but politicians are all too often influenced by minority groups e.g. the Ramblers assoc who want to stop us using Greenlane's (read Green Roads). And although I`m not against very specific and targeted speed reduction areas, for example outside of schools, I`m pleased this 20 mph scheme appears to have been a spectacular failure.
:tiphat
This topic is going round in circles and not one that can be solved here.
We've just had a round of ballot boxing and nothing much seems to have changed.
The next round will be coming soon ...(https://www.series2club.co.uk/2023_new_forum/Smileys/wittsends/vote.gif)
For now we'll look this topic ...