Anyone converted a wooden stable/garage?

[Myles (Mr Fox) Davison]

Not the best pic, below, but it's the best I currently have of what will hopefully be my garage at our next home.

It's a wooden stable block that has already been converted into a double garage space with two store rooms that are partitioned-off single-horse stalls.

The standard single garage doors are obviously not tall enough to get my tropical-roof SW inside - but when we viewed the property, it looked as if there is a distinct horizontal rectangular panel that runs across the entire width of the end-wall above the garage doors. If this can be removed (possibly with reinforcement), I should gain the height needed...

I'm not sure whether to pursue a roller door - or barn-door solution. I'm also struggling to find anyone locally who admits to being capable of doing the work. There are garage door companies (one of which we've used before on a conventional brick-built garage) and there are the mega-buck custom wooden building brigades who probably aren't that interested in modifying a lowly structure such as this.

In addition, if possible I'd like to break through the internal partition between the large garage space and the first storage stall - I don't yet know if the partition is structural and original or was added when the building was converted.

Anyone been down a similar route?

[autorover1]

Change the doors to conventional side opening, that would gain a possible 200 mm or so. That's what I did when I had a new timber garage. 

[Robin]

Roller doors would limit your height as the roller itself takes up quite a bit of space at the top.

Barn doors would give you the most height, but without seeing the inside structure of the existing door frames it's difficult to tell what might be structural above the frame - your "horizontal rectangular panel" may be structural, perhaps to keep everything square   

You need a builder, or someone with general building experience, to at least look and advise, even if you do the work yourself.
I think you'll find garage door companies just make doors to fit rather than modify a structure, and 'wooden building brigades' generally have panels made in the factory and erect on site.

I was lucky - we moved to a property a very large wooden building, fully insulated - originally a poultry shed, which I have modified internally to suit my needs, but I have many years of building experience, mostly advanced DIY (renovating houses and building extentions), and have friends and contacts who are builders and so I can get advice and do most work myself.
Knowing what is structural and can be removed or modified is essential!

[Myles (Mr Fox) Davison]

Thanks - I know I'll need some structural advice anyway. For some reason, there is a wooden prop under one of the roof trusses that looks to be an afterthought and not materially fixed at either end!

[Adam1958]

If you are not too tied to having both doors, you could pull that gable end apart and make a collared-truss, so a truss that's the beam is sat up between the principle rafters, and not down at walk plate height, it would make the door opening 200-300mm higher, but would move the door more central. Unless you had pairs of doors with clipped corners. As someone has already said, barn doors are the best for height. Often the most secure too, on the proviso you can only open them from inside, which of course means you need a personnel door, which I assume there is in a building that big.
Have fun.
Looks like a great project.

[Myles (Mr Fox) Davison]

Thanks. Yes, there is a stable door at the back of the garage area for pedestrian access.

[w3526602]

Hi,

A little learning ... and all that! My knowledge may not be up to date.

You need to know if your building is PERMITTED DEVELOPMENT (GOOGLE). There are certain rights for a building to be erected within the environs of a dwelling ... and some things that are specifically NOT permitted.

It's been a long time, and memory is fading, but I think if a building has been in place for four years, you cannot be forced to remove it. OR, if has been used for a specific purpose for ten years, you cannot be forced to stop using it. But check that.

Most houses have "PERMITTED DEVELOPMENT", but previous occupants may already have used you quota

See if you can find your way to the GARDEN LAW FORUM ... a lot of professional knowledge (and free advice) on tap. There is also a good deal of amusing bickering.

My current plans are to erect a plastic greenhouse between my bathroom window (I live in  bungalow) and a hole cut in the garage wall, and move my 5ft x 6ft bathroom into the front (8ft x 9ft HALF) of my brick built garage ...

... and now my yougng lady is demanding my morning disrobal... I e=will return.

602

[Alan Drover]

Best check with your local council then.

[jonhutchings]

With regard to the original post unless you are making the building bigger than it's current floor plan, I would get on and do your alterations. If you start getting the local council etc involved it will all of a sudden become "a problem" and you'll find that it should never have been converted to a garage, that the roof isn't suitable etc. etc. . I used to be a big fan of doing things by the book with respect to planning etc. but after many house moves, extension builds, stable yard builds etc, I've come to realise that the law is an ass, and so now try to only involve them where really necessary. (eg if building an extension or similar)
These days  the law is less of an ass and permitted development rules have been relaxed over recent times, sheds etc. come under class E

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/permitted-development-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance/permitted-development-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance#class-e-buildings-etc

[Countryview]

Agree with Jon. Ordered a timber garage recently (still to arrive) but as we live in a conservation area and the garage is at the bottom of the drive, i.e roadside, I had to apply for listed building consent! Got approval subject to conditions and had to submit a heritage statement and a load of other nonsense. One of the conditions was external finishes and they tried to dictate to me the shade of woodstain to apply which I challenged of course as I'm the one who looks at it every day! I've also dealt with planners and conservation officers many times over the years due to profession and my advice would be to avoid planning wherever legally possible and changing the doors or internal alterations should be fine as long as the external view looks similar and you're not increasing the size or height of the structure.

My garage doors are likely to need raising very slightly too but I plan to raise the barn doors and frame so this gives the horizontal support of the end gable (triangular bit) over and fit new timber to the bottom of the door frame and fit a weather bar over the bottom of the doors to fill the gaps.

[Jimbo]

I heartily agree with the above, don't mention it to anyone unless you really need to.
Altering the gable end to fit bigger doors and any internal work has nothing to do with planning.
As long as you aren't making it wider, taller or altering its use then it's no one's business other than your own.

[Alan Drover]

Any neighbours likely to complain whatever?

[Myles (Mr Fox) Davison]

So...

The main building is part of a converted steading - one arm of a horseshoe-shaped construction. The main building is (takes deep breath) a Cat C listed building (the Scottish equivalent of Grade 3 I guess). The garage/stable is not part of the listing and we understand it's not in a conservation area.

We already expect to have to apply for consent to erect a satellite dish - one of the other three properties has one but we have no idea yet as to whether it was legitimate or not.

I would be surprised if changing the end of the garage would be an issue locally - especially if we go the barn-door route. I'm more than happy for them to match the colour of the rest of the building - but even modern doors would look better than the slightly tatty up-and-overs there just now.

We might do a bit of probing with the existing owners - who have been there for almost 20 years. Aside from anything, I'd be interested to find out when the stables were converted and what the original configuration was...

[w3526602]

Hi,

Try a Google for "YOUR ADDRESS" PLANNING APLICATION.

A search on my own address told me when the Previous Owner applied for Planning Permission for the conservatory against the rear wall of the bungalow. (As she was a spinster, I assume she left everything to the builder/supplier.

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[Adam1958]

You tend not to have and permitted development rights with a building that is listed, or buildings that fall inside listed cartilage.
The barn may well be outside it though. It's easy and free to check. (I don't know about Scotland though)
If the building had been stood there for a long time though it's all pretty irrelevant. If it was mine I'd crack on and do it, but keep the old doors. In the unlikely event anyone cares, you could just put it back how it was, or get retrospective permission.

Take lots of pictures of how it is, and a google earth pic of it from above etc.

Just don't paint it fluorescent pink with a plastic shark on the roof.