I was looking at the Dunsfold collections Rolls powered 81" the other day and only then realised it was the rear axle that got moved back. Not quite sure why, I didn't climb under it to investigate. Maybe it was purely to allow a longer propshaft?

https://www.dunsfoldcollection.co.uk/collection/series1/81-rolls-engined-military-trials#v

Craig.

Quote from: w3526602 on Yesterday at 05:35 AMHi,

 
If you want a rare SWB, seek out an 81"!

I believe they made 200 ... half with a Rover Engine, half with the Rolls Royce engine from the Champ ... for Army "suitability" trials ... interchangeability of spares, etc.

I can't remember why they decided they didn't want the Champ. 

602 (Who contrived to squeeze a BMC 2.2TD into a Champ ... about 50 years ago ... and found it was cheaper to run than Barbara's Hillman Imp, but only because diesel cost a lot less than petrol per gallon)

The 81" always had the Rolls Royce engine, there was no need or purpose in extending the wheelbase by 1", it was done solely to accommodate the much bigger engine.

You are correct there was never a 109" series 1 station wagon, as it was never offered with a diesel engine. The series 1 lwb utility chassis is quite unlike the station wagon chassis. They were not commonised until the series II appeared.

Many more lwb were built than swb, some export markets not even offering the 88". Few have survived as they were usually workhorses, and less desired meant often worth more as parts donors for an 88". The home market was more balanced, but it was mainly utility and military orders filling the 109" order books, with private buyers preferring the 88".

Haven't tried them but got to be worth a go at that price.

The similar ones from Frosts that I have are now £79!

Craig.

The genuine series one parts manual I have is printed in the early 60's so it is referred to as the "land Rover series one" on the front cover. Before the series two's were released they were off course simply Land Rovers.

That manual does mention all the differences between the the 86" and 88" models and covers the 2 litre Diesel engine which is very recognisable as the basis for the series 2, 2286 engines.

As you say, the 86" series one became an 88" simply by moving the spring hangers, spring bushes, and damper mountings 2" forward on the same chassis. The front grille panel was moved forward only 1" however so the front crossmember moved 1" as well. I think the inner wings were different, bonnet length, outer wings, steering link rod between the box and relay, and the front propshaft was longer.

As you also correctly say, the 107" station wagon never got the Diesel engine so it never became a 109" station wagon, at least not until the series two came along.

The series one 107" utility and station wagon chassis are very different things however. For the 107" (and 109") utility chassis, imagine an 86" chassis cut in half behind the gearbox after the chassis steps upwards, with really long rear rails stuck to it.
Off course that wouldn't work for the 107" station wagon as the rear floor needs to go in the space behind the gearbox but before the chassis steps upwards so they made a very unique chassis for the station wagon.
The 107 (and 109") utility also had the rear springs under the chassis rails, the station wagons were placed outside the chassis rails and it was off course the station wagon design they standardised on for all the 109" series two models.

Even the series two 109" chassis frames vary though from the station wagon to the utility models. It is essentially the same thing but not interchangeable without cutting floor supports and mounting brackets off and replacing them with specific ones for the model you are building.

Craig.

Has anyone experience using these or similar hole punch/joggler? Rated up to .8mm stainless material

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135021624857?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zrlcd_jdthi&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=Fxm85MKLRNC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Hi.

It was only relatively recently that I read that the 86" and 88" used the same basic chassis rails, with the extra 2" being found by moving the front axle foreward. Similarly, the 107" and 109".

Rovers never mentioned the change to the Plus 2 (My description), and very few people noticed. For those that did notice, all became clear when they introduced the diesel engine which initially was two litres.

I've known for a long time that the Series One LWB ESTATE was never changed to 109". I presume that was because the LWB estate was never supplied with a diesel engine.

Did the Parts Book reflect that there had been changes?

602

More photos here:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?vanity&set=a.900395429983623

Looking again at your photo I can't see the bonnet side catches I'd expect to see, although the only possible ex-Sweb one I know of didn't have them either. Unfortunately the photo is too dark for me to really get a sense of the tyre size, and most of the wheels are cropped out. It might be one but I'm not 100% certain.

Learning how to measure threads is a very useful skill to have.
All you need is a calliper to measure the bolt diameter, some thread gauges, and a small yellow Zeus book.

As for the steering box they have a mix of UNF and UNC threads I think. The course UNC threads screw into the cast aluminium threads and the bolts with nuts on the other side are the finer UNF threads.

To measure a bolt just measure across the thread diameter and decide what is closest. A 1/2" thread will not measure 1/2" but be slightly smaller, maybe 0.495" or something. You then need to stick your thread gauges in the threads to work out the threads per inch. (TPI) Once you have that information, simply look it up in the Zeus book. A 1/2" UNF thread has 20TPi and a 1/2" UNC thread only has 13TPI. That may not be needed though as the difference between UNF threads and UNC threads is obvious at a glance.

Metric threads use exactly the same method except measure the thread in millimetres and then the pitch is measured in millimetres between each thread. A standard M8 bolt will measure 7.90ish across the threads and have a pitch of 1.25mm. If you can't measure 1.25mm with a ruler, measure ten threads and off course that will 12.5mm

For measuring BSW and BSF threads, use exactly the same method as UNF and UNC threads above. The only difference is the angle the threads are cut is 55° against the imperial and metric 60° thread angle. You can get BSF and BSW thread gauges off course cut at the correct 55° angle.

After you've been doing it a while you will be able to spot them straight away. I can sift through a random box of bolts and arrange them all into piles of metric, UNF and UNC without measuring anything. Harder to spot BSF mixed in with UNF and BSW mixed in with UNC though, may need the measuring tools for them.

The 109 sold more. Period. If you're happy to factor in S3 sales, ever more so. It's simply that less 109s survive. I've just found this:



https://www.lrfaq.org/FAQ.3.LR_production.html