Thank you so much. It sounds like it's best to get them bled when they're in pieces, which is fine if it means I don't have to pump the pedal!

To be fair, the brakes are now quite good once you've pumped them...

Quote from: w3526602 on Today at 06:18 AMHi Ed,

I too have pondered on this, over the years.

As I see it, we require the minimum possible amount of air behind the wheel cylinders, which isn't easy, as the centre  lines of the front wheel cylinders  are horizontal, with the bleed nipples being on the centre lines, and pointing sideways ... meaning that there is air above the centre lines which cannot (in theory) be expelled.

Adjusting the shoes fully OFF, should allow the shoe pull-off springs to pull the pistons fully IN leaving NO room for unwanted air. But that assumes the adjusters, when fully OFF, are not touching the shoes, which would/could require both the holes in the back-plates, and the pins in the shoes, to be drilled in the exact correct positions ... but how can you tell?  Are there any similarly shaped shoes. intended for different marques, that are imported from the Third World and repackaged  as suitable for Land Rovers?   Wash your mouth, 602?

My solution is to assemble the shoes onto the back-plates, connect, and bleed (while the nipples are pointing vertically) BEFORE filling the back-plates to the swivels. All very contrived and time consuming ... but it works for me.

I have noticed, many times, over the years, advice to incline the vehicle prior to bleeding ... but does that advice appear in the FACTORY workshop manual?

OT, but many (50?) years ago, I got involve with the brakes on a mate's car, that could not be bled. I pointed out that the callipers were up-side-down, with the bleed nipples at the bottom, so impossible to evacuate all the air.

He had fitted the LH calliper to the RH end of the axle, and the RH calliper to the LH end of the axle, so both bleed nipples were at the bottom. An easy mistake for a "tyro" which, in my mind should have been designed to be impossible to make ... different centres on the bolt holes, for instance, or maybe different bolt diameters? Left hand threads on the left hand swivels?

602

Hi Ed,

I too have pondered on this, over the years.

As I see it, we require the minimum possible amount of air behind the wheel cylinders, which isn't easy, as the centre  lines of the front wheel cylinders  are horizontal, with the bleed nipples being on the centre lines, and pointing sideways ... meaning that there is air above the centre lines which cannot (in theory) be expelled.

Adjusting the shoes fully OFF, should allow the shoe pull-off springs to pull the pistons fully IN leaving NO room for unwanted air. But that assumes the adjusters, when fully OFF, are not touching the shoes, which would/could require both the holes in the back-plates, and the pins in the shoes, to be drilled in the exact correct positions ... but how can you tell?  Are there any similarly shaped shoes. intended for different marques, that are imported from the Third World and repackaged  as suitable for Land Rovers?   Wash your mouth, 602?

My solution is to assemble the shoes onto the back-plates, connect, and bleed (while the nipples are pointing vertically) BEFORE filling the back-plates to the swivels. All very contrived and time consuming ... but it works for me.

I have noticed, many times, over the years, advice to incline the vehicle prior to bleeding ... but does that advice appear in the FACTORY workshop manual?

OT, but many (50?) years ago, I got involve with the brakes on a mate's car, that could not be bled. I pointed out that the callipers were up-side-down, with the bleed nipples at the bottom, so impossible to evacuate all the air.

He had fitted the LH calliper to the RH end of the axle, and the RH calliper to the LH end of the axle, so both bleed nipples were at the bottom. An easy mistake for a "tyro" which, in my mind should have been designed to be impossible to make ... different centres on the bolt holes, for instance, or maybe different bolt diameters? Left hand threads on the left hand swivels?

602

I did wonder what had happened to the site. As a new LW owner, of course I looked for all the possible sources of information. The EMLRA one being one of the obvious forums. As has been pointed out, there was very little in terms of content, or certainly recently, so came upon this forum and joined the club, largely due to the fact the help offered here in and of itself, easily out weighs the membership. A point perhaps missed by the EMLRA. I am sure there will be members on both sites, but will wait to see before joining. The Light Weight forum, also seems little used, which is a shame, but as in most cases, the majority of forums are contributed to by a few regulars. Without sounding naff, this does make it a friendly forum ready to offer help and assistance to those of us who certainly need it.

One door stripped and repair section ordered.
Now to learn how.

If you haven't got the "feel" or experience then these tables will help you....

Even my torque adapter goes down only as far as 12 ft lb.

There aren't many people who have a torque wrench that can read that low.

OK

To save following my link above the torque value for the track rod end clamps is given as 10 lb ft.

Thank you so much Dormy - I am not going mad then (yet!).

Quote from: Dormy on Yesterday at 05:39 PMThe standard 109 brake layout puts the flexi hose to the top cylinder and the bleed nipple on the bottom as you describe. One cylinder at the top and the other the bottom (doesn't look absolutely vertical) of the backplate.

It's not the best layout for bleeding and there have been many threads - you are not alone. There are different techniques that people prefer and swear by. Mine is to clamp the pistons back into cylinders and bleed like that, before fitting the shoes. OK if everything is disassembled.

Some have adapted the S3 pipe layout (which still has the cylinders/bleed nipple the same way), to feed the fluid to the bottom cyl first and then the top cylinder where they also relocate the bleed nipple.

Head off recently. How long has this been on, I wonder?
1969 88"