Just a thought or two on electric cars

[whitehillbilly64]

Christmas/ New Year storms in Northern NSW, SE Qld Australia, has knocked power out with reports of taking up to 2 months to restore.
With no Sun and no power many EV's won't be on the road for a while.
I am not affected and still have power but that didn't stop me filling up my Jerry Cans and having 100ltrs of fuel on standby for my Vehicles and Generators if needed.

whitehillbilly

[Gareth]

Christmas/ New Year storms in Northern NSW, SE Qld Australia, has knocked power out with reports of taking up to 2 months to restore.
With no Sun and no power many EV's won't be on the road for a while.
I am not affected and still have power but that didn't stop me filling up my Jerry Cans and having 100ltrs of fuel on standby for my Vehicles and Generators if needed.

whitehillbilly

Problem is, in UK we're only allowed to store a maximum 30 litres of fuel. That won't go far in my 2a.

[diffwhine]

Christmas/ New Year storms in Northern NSW, SE Qld Australia, has knocked power out with reports of taking up to 2 months to restore.
With no Sun and no power many EV's won't be on the road for a while.
I am not affected and still have power but that didn't stop me filling up my Jerry Cans and having 100ltrs of fuel on standby for my Vehicles and Generators if needed.

whitehillbilly

I was going to drop you a note on this. I take you didn't get clobbered too hard?

[whitehillbilly64]

Worst is 1 hr North of Me.
Normal Local Flooding in this Area.
30lts  Who Polices that?

[dartymoor]

Christmas/ New Year storms in Northern NSW, SE Qld Australia, has knocked power out with reports of taking up to 2 months to restore.

Oof. I remember driving around Cairns and down the East Coast in 2000 and there were rolling power cuts then with towns getting power something like four hours on, four off. That felt like quite a big deal to a couple of cold blooded poms in the middle of summer with no aircon.

Apparently there were three power stations feeding the NT then, and one was taken down for maintenance. Shortly afterwards a second had failed catastrophically leaving just one. Everyone we spoke to talked about a lack of investment and poor maintenance over decades leading up to it.

Storms obviously damage infrastructure anywhere, but has this been made worse or have those issues been overcome in the past 23 years?

[dartymoor]

Problem is, in UK we're only allowed to store a maximum 30 litres of fuel. That won't go far in my 2a.

I think that's more a petrol thing, isn't it?

If properly bunded (and even if not) plenty of farms and businesses store several thousand litres of red or white diesel, and oil fired boilers burn kerosine that I understand is fairly close to diesel.

[Gareth]

Problem is, in UK we're only allowed to store a maximum 30 litres of fuel. That won't go far in my 2a.

I think that's more a petrol thing, isn't it?

If properly bunded (and even if not) plenty of farms and businesses store several thousand litres of red or white diesel, and oil fired boilers burn kerosine that I understand is fairly close to diesel.

I think you're right, it's for petrol only. Diesel looks to be unlimited.

How is it policed? I've no idea. Probably not. But if an accident occurred and damage or death was caused, you would be open to all sorts of implications.

[Ken]

I think the concern is in case of a fire when any container containing petrol or gas is likely to become a bomb, the attending fire brigade would be at risk for one thing.
The issues are more significant in rural communities, here the nearest ( part time) fire service is 20 mins drive away, in effect not much use in a big blaze, we've no gas so must use oil or wood and no water so have a bore hole. Our nearest shops are a 20 mile round trip. I keep a couple of Jerry cans of petrol but mostly for machines though I can only fill one at a time by hiding it behind the pump at Tesco, I can't do the same at Sainsbury's as they see me filling it and switch of the pump shouting at me over the tannoy that you're only allowed to fill something much smaller !
The whole of the electric / environmental thing pays absolutely no attention to us ( we are in a listed ancient cob building and must keep single glazed windows which the wind gets around and heat pumps will not work here)
Going forward what is evident is that we are on our own. No public transport so we must have a car and my take on it is that diesel will continue to be available. I can't see a giant tractor running on batteries. We are making plans accordingly. The only bright spot is that our electricity supply is robust, I can imagine how difficult it must be for our Aussie cousins ( and yes some really are mine )

[TJRL]

Be careful - you are heading into SVA and radially altered vehicle territory 

Would one of these engine & gearbox swap outs for electric be OK (given that it is totally reversible) or are we talking a SVA? 

https://www.electrogenic.co.uk/kits/conversion-kits/series-land-rover-kits/

[w3526602]

Hi,

I believe that some otherwise "frowned on" conversions ARE allowed, without penalty, "if they improve efficiency and/or safety.".

From memory, the rules said little more than that.

There is also something in the rules allowing conversions/modifications that were "common" a certain number of years ago (Eg:- cutting pre-war Austin 7 front axles in half, to convert them to IFS (Independent Front Suspension). (A well-sorted early-1930s 750cc side-valve Austin 7 Special could out-perform a TR2). I believe the first LOTUS was based on an Austin 7 ... or was it a Ford 8/10?

602

602

[w3526602]

Hi,

There is (or was) a points system for Radically Altered Vehicles, in which one had to retain a certain number points. Points were lost, according to what was changed.

Radically changing the engine lost only ONE point.

From memory, changing the chassis (or monocoque body shell) lost you, I think, 8 points ... which made it impossible to retain any points at all. Of course, if you could acquire a brand new chassis or shell, then it was regarded as a repair, so no problem.

I think axles (BOTH, it said in the rules) counted as 2 points. I never managed to work out if changing cost 2 points, or 4.
 .

The rules said the replacement component had to be obtained from the factory, but not WHICH factory. I believe all/most of replacement Series chassis are built under some sort of agreement/licence from Land Rover. No doubt somebody here can clarify that?

The chassis for the JAGO GEEP kit car has brackets for seat belts, with each and every chassis being tested on their "dynamic" rig ... a huge weight on rollers.

602

[Wittsend]

These are the rules that apply today in the UK

What happened in the past might be "Interesting" but not relevant today.

The DVLA website Radically Altered Vehicles

Is very clear on the subject.

Remember we don't make or interpret the rules. The rules were Brough in to try and stop people finding loop holes and trying to cheat the revenue man.

Remember too, that whilst you may retain your "points" and Historic Vehicle status, if the alterations were done recently and you have no evidence or paper-work to back up your "claim" that the alterations were done at least 40 years ago, the vehicle will be subject to an MoT test.

Sticking an electric motor in, removing the gearbox, sticking it on little car wheels is not going to work to give you a tax and MoT free drive 

[w3526602]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for that copy of the RADICALLY ALTERED VEHICLES regulations. I will try to take/make a copy of it for more my own purposes.

OT.  My friend Johnny Thomas (in South Wales) rebuilt a 1902-ish Napier (the first car to be painted BRG). He bought it as a box of bits, and brought it back from USA. There were no chassis rails ... so he made a pair from 2" (50mm) square section ASH. The original front and rear dumb-irons were still in usable condition, being (presumably) hand forged steel, and held to the timber rails by a couple of nuts and bolts. Brave men, those grandfathers of ours.

A load of members of the Swansea Historic Vehicle Society (my membership number was in the low twenties) went to watch him race this monster, but I can't remember which race track. Very impressive watching him hammer down the straight, glance over his shoulder, grab the hand-brake, and lean back.

We were welcomed by the SHVR, due to Barbara owning a Reliant Sabre 6GT, which Barbara "grass auto-tested". Interesting experience driving round the bollards on WET grass in a plastic bodied Ford 8 Special with a Ford Zodiac, 2552cc (?) straight 6 engine (a bit over 100bhp). The chassis was rotten, so was sold (£100) to somebody who promised to restore it.

We learned, years later, that it was renuded of its engine and gearbox, the front suspension from the factory motor show Scimitar GTE, chrome plated TR6 front suspension, with huge discs, and five new chrome wire wheels with "knock on"spinners ....
... and the dregs sold for £5,000. It was rebuilt, and returned to both road, and race track.

Girls have arrived to prepare our evening meal. Doh!

602

[w3526602]

Hi Alan.

My understanding, from my researches (late in the last century), is that provided you can keep within the "points limit" for REBUILT & RADICALLY ALTERED VEHICLES, you do not need to go through a SINGLE VEHICLE ASSESSMENT. A changing a chassis will require either an SVA inspection, or a BRAND NEW CHASSIS SUPPLIED DIRECT FROM ITS MANUFACTURER. A monocoque body shell counts as a chassis. The same rules apply to motorcycles.

I have seen something, somewhen, in the rules stating that pre-used chassis or shells MAY be acceptable, if new items are not available. Do your own research.

Alan, I think you commented (but I can't find) about my suggestion of fitting "dinky wheels" onto a Land Rover. I reply, I refer you to a comment by some historical "sage" ...

A reasonable man will fit in with his "circumstances", while an un-reasonable man will make his "circumstances" fit in with him. Therefore, all progress is the result of unreasonable men.

Suggesting that going "Dinky" cannot be done (or cannot be done legally), make me feel challenged. Unfortunately, I have more important challenges* on my plate.  Maybe next week ... or the week after.

* I'm working on plans to convert  half my garage into an all singing, all dancing, wheel chair accessible bathroom (bath, basin, loo, bidet, wheel-chair-accessible shower).  I'm happy to consider other similar facilites.

Barbara has not been able to leave her bed since she came out of hospital (following a fall) I think over a year ago

The other half will have the back wall replaced with full width, full height, South facing windows, onto the rear garden, with provision for later "treatment" such as "dialysis", but starting with a hoist over an indoor two-seater hot-tub.

Er ... does anybody have any idea of the demand for bungalows with "at home" dialysis facilities?

602

[Theshed]

Hi,

Returning to electric cars ... the Citroen (Visa? Definitely Citroen) is reputed to be the cheapest NEW battery powered car, at about £8,500 ... but factor in about £1,000 for your own charging point in your front garden.

Think 2CV, but a little prettier, and smaller. Everybody needs two cars.

602

I think the Renault Twingo is to be the cheapest EV, but that is somewhere around £17,000 ?
Me. I'm sticking with ICE for as long as I can. Wife may go for a hybrid, but full electric can wait.