Throw away society - even with engineers

[Littlelegs]

Well, today I took the armature from my starter motor to a couple of local electrical engineering workshops to find out if they'd skim it as it has definitely got ridges across it. Both said it wasn't worth doing as it'd be cheaper to buy a new one. One said as they'd remove material it would probably affect reliability too.

I also queried a refurb on the dynamo and was told just bin it and buy a new one.
I'm no skinflint, but if there's still life in stuff why has it become less cost effective to repair and reuse. I'm told that when the vehicle was last running the starter worked fine. I find this throw away and replace attitude to be Madness.

I may just put the starter back together now it's clean and see how it goes when I'm finally at a stage to get stuff running again. Pics below of the offending article.

[Alan Drover]

Unfortunately it's a sign of the times and lack of skilled workers.

[Littlelegs]

 Very frustrating though as it just creates more unnecessary waste when it could be reused

[Exile]

It is totally unneccesary to throw it away.

As I said on another thread, about my diesel starter motor, I took it to a Firm where the "old boy" who founded it, still works part-time in a small shed on the site.

It is the attitude of the people who you took yours to, that keeps people like him in work.

He skimmed the commutator as a matter of course, considering it wrong to refurb the rest and not do that too.

I can confirm that the starter is strong and healthy.

He rebuilds dynamos too.

May I suggest you find that elusive "old boy" near you, who knows what he is doing.

[ChrisJC]

The maths isn't hard. It will cost a business about £100/hr to employ somebody.
How long to fettle an old motor? couple of hours?

A factory can knock them out for £20 a pop.

I am sure if you had an honest discussion about cost, they'd help.

Chris.

[GlenAnderson]

I think that a lot of people simply have too big a set of overheads to make jobs like that worthwhile on a commercial basis. Factor in the potential for future aggro if there's a subsequent failure, and I would interpret their response as "I don't want the work".

Personally, I'd maybe consider doing that kind of job for myself, but not for others as it's just too much bother. You can buy a new one for £82 delivered; that's probably not even 1/2 hour of machine shop time.

[Littlelegs]

The maths isn't hard. It will cost a business about £100/hr to employ somebody.
How long to fettle an old motor? couple of hours?

A factory can knock them out for £20 a pop.

I am sure if you had an honest discussion about cost, they'd help.

Chris.

Unfortunately neither place was up for any discussion. Both just said it wasn't worth it.

[Littlelegs]

I think that a lot of people simply have too big a set of overheads to make jobs like that worthwhile on a commercial basis. Factor in the potential for future aggro if there's a subsequent failure, and I would interpret their response as "I don't want the work".

Personally, I'd maybe consider doing that kind of job for myself, but not for others as it's just too much bother. You can buy a new one for £82 delivered; that's probably not even 1/2 hour of machine shop time.

Yeah, I understand the rationale on their part but just find it frustrating and limiting. The first shop told me once set up his machine would perform the skim in under 4seconds, but it's the setting up that takes the time and makes it not cost effective. He was charging £50/hr plus vat.

I've not seen a replacement one for as cheap as £82 but at that price I understand why repair is pointless.

[GlenAnderson]

Here. 👍

[Littlelegs]

Cheers, I thought you meant the starter motor, but equally applies to the dynamo given that price.

[GlenAnderson]

I made a jig up to hold a BSA Bantam cylinder head in the lathe to skim and reprofile the combustion chamber.

It took a week of evenings, so probably 10-12 hours to design and make the jig.

It takes about half an hour to set up a head to be able to make a start.

It takes about ten minutes to do a head once it's in there.

So, £633 to do one head at £50 an hour. 😱

I have done three in the years since I made the jig, and even at the minimum wage that's north of £70 a head.

I would think that a competent machinist, doing your job for the first time (so factoring in a bit of head scratching that you wouldn't need to do next time) is going to be using up to an hour of their day. For a mate, or a regular customer, I can see them doing it. For some random stranger walking in? Not a chance.

[Littlelegs]

I get the maths and effort/skill involved but still think it's a shame though. That random stranger walking in for the first time could just become a regular customer with an associate base of potential customers.

Given the replacement prices the common sense option is to buy new or even consider a dynamator and hi torque starter as replacements. The modern way things are I guess.🤷�♂️

[Adam1958]

Unfortunately it's a sign of the times and lack of skilled workers.

I'm not sure I agree with this, I think those skilled workers just have to make X an hour to pay for their tools, building, insurance etc. And by time you have messed about with something for an hour or two with results that maybe can't be guaranteed, as the rest of the items parts are in unknown condition then it quite quickly becomes clear that you can't charge engineers hourly rates on something that potentially only has a few hours left in it once rebuilt.
I totally understand the sentiment. I really do. It's infuriating. But I also run a business so can see the potential for a mare and the resulting I'll feeling etc etc.
If I was in this boat I'd go to a place like the machine-shop or one of those other community DIY engineering places, I'd get on the lathe, skim it myself and if it doesn't work then I had a nice day out learning new things. If it works then I can strut about proud as punch and have a beer because I've got spare money burning a hole.
Sad, but it's not an indication of modern England, it's more an indication about a modern China.

[Billy]

It should not be an expensive job to put the armature on a lathe and lightly face off. If smoothing by hand, use glass paper not emery. Make sure to undercut the segments (knife blade) to ensure they remain insulated and not bridging.
Regards
Bill

[Theshed]

I was struggling to find new drums for my old Mondeo which where out of true.
I remembered an Engineering firm near me that would do jobs for my former employer.
I called around and asked the young chap I first spoke to thought not. The old guy who came into the factory was still there running the place.
Leave them with us I'll have a go he said.
Next day he called to say they where ready. £40 each ! I was stunned.
Well, at least they should last a few more years. I hope.