Problems at petrol stations

[Peter Holden]

I know this is a long winded post but I have copied the contents of an email from the FBHCC about difficulties some people have experienced when trying to fuel a vehicle with a hidden filler.  This is pertinent to those who have land rovers with an underseat fill.  The last bit suggests how to approach filling at a station that you don't usually use.

Peter

The PRA represents independent fuel retailers, motorway service operators and supermarkets, accounting for 65% of all UK forecourts.

There are there are several vehicles, mostly classics, that have fuel fillers either in the boot or under the bonnet that require the boot or bonnet to be open during refuelling.

In the Technical Update, issued to all forecourt members, PRA technical director Phil Monger explains best practice:  "Modern Ford Transits require the passenger or driver's door to be opened to gain access to the fuel filler in the side of the van.

"Examples of cars are: Hillman Imp and derivatives such as the Singer Chamois and the Sunbeam Stiletto, Renault 10, Fiat 850, and VW Beetle.

"Early Land Rovers have the fuel tank under the driver's seat so the driver's door has to be open during refuelling,"

This issue relates to the filling of portable containers. The Petroleum (consolidation) Regulations 2014 require only suitable containers to be filled, which are specified. It is an offence to allow the filling of unsuitable containers.

The site operators' guide, The Red Guide, also makes it clear that the filling of a container in the boot not only prevents the bonding to earth of the container which is done by standing it on the ground, but also leaves a boot full of flammable vapour and high risk of fire or explosion if ignited.

If the bonnet or boot are open, it is impossible to see a container, and an open boot or bonnet would suggest to the forecourt attendant that a container is being filled.

With certain classic cars, this is a legitimate case of filling a vehicle tank, and the issue should be easily resolved by a discussion taking place between attendants and motorists by way of the Tannoy.

The PRA would suggest to the motorist that before attempting to fill the vehicle, to alert the attendant to the need for a raised bonnet or boot lid, and access would be granted.

[Theshed]

Mercedes Sprinters that I drove in the Nineties required passenger door to be open to access fuel flap, which was handy as I often 'took one for m'self ! 
Also, as most fuel cans are plastic these days the earthing issue does not apply.
I do wonder how many forecourt 'attendants' would know or care, especially with the increase of unstaffed stations.

[Ken]

I live a twenty minute drive from the nearest petrol stations. For my garden machinery I need petrol, there's a lot of garden to maintain using a big Honda mower, 165 cc wheeled strimmer and chain saw, also for my vintage car.
It would be mad to drive a less than 20 mpg vintage car a round trip of 20 miles plus to put some fuel in it and 5 litres wouldn't last 5 minutes at this time of the year with the grass  needing cutting every 3 days.
For either of the above I use proper Jerry cans.
If I try at Sainsbury's the operator shouts at me over the tannoy and shuts off the pump.
Apparently I'm allowed 5 litres or something like. Figure it out, it's insane. I fill up at Tesco where the pumps obscure the operator's  view

[Alan Drover]

I have various 2 and 4 stroke garden machines but nothing as big as Ken has. I walk to the nearby Shell station with the 2 or 4 stroke 5 litre jerry can and fill it. I always carry it into the shop to pay and no one says anything.
However for 5 litres of E5 at £1.719 per litre which equals £8.595 I'm charged £8.60 so where's my 1/2p change?

[Oddjob]

If you want to be really naughty pop a nail through the holes on the pump handle and then the lever lock can be used for handsfree filling. I keep one inside my filler flap door. 

[Alan Drover]

Just to explain I need exactly 5 litres of E5 as I put enough 2 stroke oil in the can first for 5 litres for the 2 stroke machinery and also the 4 stroke hedge trimmer and brush cutter which must use 2 stroke mixture.

[Betsy1969]

You must be strong to carry 5 litres any distance unless it's not very far. I once had to carry a 5 litre can about a mile and a half from the petrol station back to a car which had run out and my arms were nearly dropping off.

Then to compound my misery I had to use a pen in the filler neck to get past the anti symphony flaps and it got lost in the tank !

[DogDave]

Only ever had one petrol station object to the door being open. They actually wouldn't turn the pump on and when I went inside to explain they came out to look at the vehicle, once they saw the tank was indeed under the seat they were happy.

Their reason was they get people driving off without paying for fuel and the scroats that do so like to leave the driver door open so they can make a quicker getaway.

[Alan Drover]

You must be strong to carry 5 litres any distance unless it's not very far. I once had to carry a 5 litre can about a mile and a half from the petrol station back to a car which had run out and my arms were nearly dropping off.

It's about 300 yards so no problem. I don't know about a mile and a half though. Although 5 litres doesn't appear to be that heavy it's surprising how heavy it becomes over a long distance.
I can carry a Wolf wheel and tyre tucked under one arm ( but only very short distances).

[GlenAnderson]

I once carried a full 20litre jerrycan a bit over a mile. Never again.

[Wittsend]

1 gallon (of water) weighs exactly 10 lbs.

Petrol/diesel is a little lighter so say 8 lbs.

20 litres is just under 4 gallons so you'll have 35+ lbs in the can, plus the weight of the can.
That's quite a load. Better to carry 2 cans, one for each arm to balance things out 
As you know the outer handle bits were to allow 2 people either side to carry the can between them

PS
I always thought that jerry cans were 5 gallons 
Have they shrunk over the years or am I misinformed

I tend to use a little 5 litre plastic can for the lawn mower (lasts me about 1 year of mowing).
I get some surprising looks when filling up the LWT - hose in through the front door.
Great ... means I can pull up any side of the pumps. Never been refused service.

[Alan Drover]

I use two 5 litre jerry cans, one for 4 stroke and the other for 2 stroke.
Every time I take my Land Rover out I have to remove a 22kg wheel clamp and replace it back home which is good exercise.
20 litres over a mile is seriously heavy.
I have a 20 litre jerry can but not much use nowadays as modern petrol doesn't keep.

[Richard]

I once carried a full 20litre jerrycan a bit over a mile. Never again.

Exactly. My physics teacher at school told me mass is constant. Well, it's not. And anybody who has ever carried anything heavy over some distance knows that after a while anything heavy gets heavier and heavier...
Richard

[Alan Drover]

Mass is constant. It's just the bad mechanical design of the human body that makes it feel heavier the further a weight, even a relatively light one, is carried.
It's psychological. Mechanical devices don't have a brain.

[GlenAnderson]

Jerrycans have always been 20litres. They're actually a fascinating piece of industrial design. A full one has just enough air in its expansion area so that it is just positively buoyant. The design was copied by the allies after assessing captured Axis equipment, hence the name "Jerry" can.