powder extinguishers

[Dopey]

I think powder is the best one to get (isn't it?)and recommendations on the size, I know biggest is better buy they are ugly, I was thinking of a gas one, but they leak over time

[Ken]

I thought that powder compacts.
You could look up the spec for motor sport, from MUK, trials and rallies would do.  I know the size is 2.5 litres or thereabouts but the most important bit of info is what the active ingredient is. They've done the research.

[Boomer]

All fire extinguishers have a storage life, but might still work if out of date.
As a volunteer bushfire fighter, I've not come across powder that compacts.
Powder is effective for most burning materials - solid, liquid and gas.
It makes quite a mess to clean up afterwards.
Carbon dioxide (CO2) extinguishers doesn't leave a mess, but look up its disadvantages, of which there are some.

The mnemonic for fire extinguisher use is "PASS". Pull pin, Aim, Squeeze trigger, Sweep across the burning stuff.

[Ken]

The extinguishant now mandatory in uk motorsport is AFFF. A foam I believe.
The one that really worked was Halon, now only available to the military due to environmental concerns ( though how much more environmental damage is done by a car burning out due to less effective extinguishers is a relevant question).
Most of the AFFF ones are relatively cheap, 2,5 litre hand held with a gauge and mounting strap probably about £30.

[Oilierthanthou]

In the past, powder extinguishers were notorious for compacting into a solid mass. It was recommended that they were regularly inverted and shaken. Modern ones might be better?
Also, in yachting circles, they say, if you ever let one off in your engine compartment, you can say goodbye to your engine. The stuff gets everywhere and blocks up everything.
I've seen foam recommended for liquid fuel fires.

John

[diffwhine]

I remember some years ago welding up the C pillars on one of my Range Rover Classics which triggered a "thermal event" inside the car thanks to an overlooked bit of trim. I grabbed the first fire extinguisher I could find which happened to be a full size powder one which I had acquired from a closing down petrol station forecourt. I obliterated the interior! It put the fire out, but ended up with a car full of pink powder, which took weeks to remove.

[Wittsend]

Not much chance of the powder compacting in an extinguisher in a Series Land Rover 

Powder extinguishers are deemed to be the best to put a "vehicle" type fire out.

The mess left behind is immaterial if if saves life & limb.
You should have fire & accident damage on your insurance.

Plenty of places to mount an extinguisher in the cab. Make sure it/they are in easy reach of both driver and passenger(s)...


or


  Don't be tempted to use the old/obsolete pyrene extinguishers found in all public vehicles years ago    They produce toxic fumes.   Mine here is empty and just for show.



REMEMBER
Do not play the hero and try to put a full blaze vehicle fire out - get everyone out to safety and let the professionals deal with it.

[chipbury]

I think a water mist extinguisher would be a good thing to look at (no nasty residues and it doesn't kill you).

It's the go to extinguishing medium in ships engine rooms now.  It works by pumping high pressure water through fine nozzles to produce a mist which stops combustion/cools the air.  You can test them with the engine running without any damage (although it did upset our electricians when it went off over them once!). 

I've had a quick google and they are available as domestic units:

www.safelincs.co.uk/water-mist-fire-extinguishers

Might be a good thing to have in house/garage nowadays?

[Peter Holden]

Alan, we had cause to usean ex mil pyrenees extinguisher in Austria  in 1970 due to my brother in law doing something stupid, fortunately it was outside but the land rover tailboard never recovered from the pink stain

Peter

[Myles (Mr Fox) Davison]

Hmm. Well from my Caterham days:

I) have a good think about mounting an extinguisher in a forward-facing wire clip mount (Wittsends first photo) - you've probably got bigger fish to fry if you experience a particularly violent stop in an S2 (rather easier to achieve the g in a Caterham) - but flying extinguishers aren't much fun!

Ii) Compacting powder was always at least a potential issue to be aware of (mine was a fully plumbed-in system as an ex-race car. Extinguisher had to be in the boot and was strapped in rather than merely clipped in). Folk-lore or fact,  if the vibration of a race/track car is capable of compacting powder over time (I never found out...) then I'd have thought an S2 would do a pretty good job of it too!

Personally, I keep an ex-Caterham extinguisher in one of the toolboxes in the back of the S2. *just* hard enough to get to to make you stop and think whether it's worth the risks of deployment - but easy enough to be usable if you're fairly sure you won't be run-over, scorched etc. if you exit the vehicle...

[Ken]

Another type of extinguisher is the fire stick.
There was some discussion on these when I was paying attention to extinguishers for trialling. I don't know how effective they are but they are still available.
MUK had not approved them for use in motorsport about 3 years ago. I don't know their status now.
Also it's a requirement to have 2 mounting straps not just the 1 the 2.5 unit comes with.
You'd generally reckon to mount one so the inertia of a sudden stop bears on the foot of the frame and not the straps.
I'm unsure of what the current best extinguishant is. The plumbed in system on my Lotus was a gas I recall. It was supplied by Lifeline who are one of the best. It might be worth looking at their site to see what they use now.

[Uffddd]

The extinguishant now mandatory in uk motorsport is AFFF. A foam I believe.
The one that really worked was Halon, now only available to the military due to environmental concerns ( though how much more environmental damage is done by a car burning out due to less effective extinguishers is a relevant question).
Most of the AFFF ones are relatively cheap, 2,5 litre hand held with a gauge and mounting strap probably about £30.

The issue with Halon is it was even better at deleting the ozone layer than it was at putting out fires. The other issue was that nothing could survive in that enclosed space once the extinguisher had been let off. It's replacement, FM200 does leave an atmosphere that you can breath in even though a fire can't burn which is great for anyone who was unable to evacuate.

Powder is an excellent all round solution to putting out fires. The only issue as mentioned is the mess it leaves. CO2 is a very clean way of extinguishing things but you need a lot of it as it doesn't cool particularly well so the fire is liable to reignite once you stop blasting it and the air gets back in.

[Dopey]

I got a 2kg powder in the end, thanks for all the advice

[Boomer]

I keep an ex-Caterham extinguisher in one of the toolboxes in the back of the S2. *just* hard enough to get to to make you stop and think whether it's worth the risks of deployment

Yes but if trapped in a burning car, an extinguisher within reach could be preferable.

[simonbav]

The extinguishant now mandatory in uk motorsport is AFFF. A foam I believe.
The one that really worked was Halon, now only available to the military due to environmental concerns ( though how much more environmental damage is done by a car burning out due to less effective extinguishers is a relevant question).
Most of the AFFF ones are relatively cheap, 2,5 litre hand held with a gauge and mounting strap probably about £30.

The issue with Halon is it was even better at deleting the ozone layer than it was at putting out fires. The other issue was that nothing could survive in that enclosed space once the extinguisher had been let off. It's replacement, FM200 does leave an atmosphere that you can breath in even though a fire can't burn which is great for anyone who was unable to evacuate.

Powder is an excellent all round solution to putting out fires. The only issue as mentioned is the mess it leaves. CO2 is a very clean way of extinguishing things but you need a lot of it as it doesn't cool particularly well so the fire is liable to reignite once you stop blasting it and the air gets back in.

"FM200 fire suppression is found as an active compound as a propellant in medical inhalers. Thus is goes without saying that FM200 gas is extremely safe for occupied spaces with the correct fire suppression design."

https://www.firesuppression.co.uk/fm200-gas.aspx

It's a great enclosed space system. I think for diesel fuel based risk I'd lean towards foam, and for electrical, CO2. Perhaps one of each in a Landy, combined with a battery isolator.