ULEZ

[diffwhine]

I take it that was when Keith had the workshop in Battersea? I remember it well.

A lot if ex-MOD vehicles were Q plated in those days if released without the full document set or had been heavily cannibalised. I had a 24v Series 3 109 off Keith which was on a Q plate as a works hack. As you say - it wasn't a big issue then and made no difference to the value of a cheap old LR.

Under the circumstances, it might be worth now trying to get an age related plate, but I wonder if it's status will get upgraded to historic as well? One for our VRO I suspect - as if he hasn't enough challenges to deal with!

[Alan Drover]

Keith Gott were based near Alton in Hampshire when I visited them many years ago.

[diffwhine]

That's where they are now. Originally Keith started selling Ex MOD vehicles out of a small place in Battersea, then moved to Bordon before ending up in Alton.

[Crumbly65]

While I can agree the need to reduce air pollution by vehicles in our cities, I am very much against the ULEZ.

Cleaning up the air requires some really radical changes to our economic way of life, as was clearly demonstrated by the Covid restrictions.

In Inner London, the air was cleaner, and the quality of life improved noticeably by reduced vehicular flow. I need to travel into Central London bi-monthly, and the difference between when the Covid restrictions were in force, and now are astounding.

I live 22 miles from Trafalgar Square. I park my car at my local rail station(£10), use my Senior Railcard for my Off-Peak All Zones Travel Travelcard (£12), and I can go anywhere within London for the day using trains, buses or the tube.  Not cheap, but a very good deal for getting around.

But for those who live in the City, and who need a vehicle for work, or to transport infirm relatives or a young family, ULEZ is an extremely regressive tax. For those living just outside the City but need their vehicle to earn their living in the City, it's another highly inflationary pressure.  As has been said, too blunt an instrument, and intrinsically unfair. I can see no good in it.

My instinctive reaction to ULEZ is "If you can pay, you can pollute", and I believe that is morally wrong, in addition to being economically damaging, unfair, crude and primitive.

I don't have the intellect to offer a workable, attractive, radical solution to air pollution.  But believe those in power, particularly in power in London, have a duty to find a fairer, workable, attractive alternative to financially penalising ordinary working people, and destroying perfectly serviceable vehicles. 

[Peter Holden]

William, we need a chat offline, I may be able to help with the age related registration and historic tax.  Message me with an email address.

Mark (Oddjob) could this be the catylist that you need to get you out of London and bacl up north?  We can disvcuss it over a beer or two in Wales

Peter

[NoBeardNoTopKnot]

What everybody wants is not the ULEZ. What we want is the 'They Should' scheme. We just don't like to say it.

That by definition is the one, only the other bloke pays for, or - do your own air-quotes here - the one 'government' pays for.

Meantime:

1) The bleaters will bleat,  the carpers will  carp.
2) It will still happen.
3) It won't be fair.
4) Few will like it.
5) Large parts of it won't make sense.
6) It will happen because it must.


Whatever the solution, it will always favour those able to afford it. It'll be One-size-fits-All. And you WILL like it, because they say you do. And those broadly unaffected won't say much. (Edited to suit Moderator?)

[timfoster]

We've known for years about the dangers of air pollution.
I'm sure with a bit of R&D the boffins could have come up with catalysts/filters for diesels which are more effective than the particle filters we have now.

Well, they did did, right? A euro-6 diesel can happily drive around the zone (for now...)

Perhaps the question was about how to retrofit an older diesel with a newer filter, and I'd imagine that's basically impossible, or at least uneconomic, as it likely has to interact with the vehicle's engine-management-system in some way.

- tim

[NoBeardNoTopKnot]

Yes, it's all possible IF we want to pay for it. Not much isn't. Problem is we don't.

I don't understand why so many would have it the ULEZ and similar is something we're supposed to like? It's supposed to be a blunt-instrument. That's its virtue.

My evidence is anecdotal, the scheme works very well here:

I have a friend living in line of sight of Chelsea's Stamford Bridge. That's the inner-zone. My Eurobox is too old, thus it's £15.00 a day to go in. I could run in and escape the charge with 'Historic status'. With my S2, if I can't grab his space, it's another £25 to park. Only the fuel-bill negates the gain.

Since the £15 charge, and the hassle to pay it, I've stopped going to visit once a week. Now every 2-3 weeks, often less. It works.

Do I like this? Of course not.

[DaveKrezz]

It's not just ULEZ that's the problem. Not many people from outside London realise that there is the LEZ zone which is any area inside the M25. Any vehicle over 1200kg and not meeting the emission targets gets hit with a £100 daily charge. Been in place since 2005. I found out the hard way when visiting my daughter in my 1995 Defender 90 (yeah sorry, Series 2 is a work in progress!)

[2 Du]

What I find interesting is that a friend of mine in his sixties who has been MOTing since his twenties, particularly Land Rovers, says that a well maintained 300Tdi produces less emissions than a Range Rover Evoke. I followed a Discovery TDV6 the other day with was beltching black smoke.I've always found car enthusiasts usually do more regular maintenance thus keeping their engines running more efficiently.

[Wittsend]

I feel sorry for the folks living in London.
I'm so glad I don't have to travel there.

 

[William]

I take it that was when Keith had the workshop in Battersea? I remember it well.

A lot if ex-MOD vehicles were Q plated in those days if released without the full document set or had been heavily cannibalised. I had a 24v Series 3 109 off Keith which was on a Q plate as a works hack. As you say - it wasn't a big issue then and made no difference to the value of a cheap old LR.

Under the circumstances, it might be worth now trying to get an age related plate, but I wonder if it's status will get upgraded to historic as well? One for our VRO I suspect - as if he hasn't enough challenges to deal with!

It was - I trudged over to Battersea on the cusp of Keith's move to Borden, from where I picked up my 109. I well remember the row upon row of land rovers there - it was kid-in-a-sweetshop time when he told me to just take my pick!

[William]

William, we need a chat offline, I may be able to help with the age related registration and historic tax.  Message me with an email address.

Thanks so much Peter, i've sent you a message.

[Theshed]

What everybody wants is not the ULEZ. What we want is the 'They Should' scheme. We just don't like to say it.

That by definition is the one, only the other bloke pays for, or - do your own air-quotes here - the one 'government' pays for.

Meantime:

1) The bleaters will bleat,  the carpers will  carp.
2) It will still happen.
3) It won't be fair.
4) Few will like it.
5) Large parts of it won't make sense.
6) It will happen because it must.


Whatever the solution, it will always favour those able to afford it. It'll be One-size-fits-All. And you WILL like it, because they say you do. And those broadly unaffected won't say much. (Edited to suit Moderator?)

Generally true I fear. However it is usually 'one size fits no-one'.

[TimV]

In Inner London, the air was cleaner, and the quality of life improved noticeably by reduced vehicular flow. I need to travel into Central London bi-monthly, and the difference between when the Covid restrictions were in force, and now are astounding.

Same here, we live on a main road about a mile from the LEZ, there was a fantastic improvement in the air quality during the lockdowns, but the introduction of the LEZ last October has led to no improvement in air quality, and more importantly, no reduction in the traffic passing our front door. Now a congestion charge could have brought some benefits - like a reduction in traffic ...