Hmmm! S2 88" WAV. Discuss!

[w3526602]

Hi,

First, the problem ... Barbara has not risen from her bed, since she was discharged from hospital, following a fall, more than a year ago. That was not the discharging doctor's intention ... although I don't think he anticipated the obstacles that were encountered.  I'll come back to that, before signing off.

Solution? Barbara has just suggested buying herself a WAV .... eg;- WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE VEHICLE.

Initial research indicates that WAVs available VAT-free, but the Revenue Men demand extensive modification, including substantial welding. I have not investigated the NEW prices of such vehicles. I feel that battery power would be essential ... a fossil powered vehicle will be a rapidly depreciating "asset".

"Brain on Gimbels" time.

Start with a new HD, galvanised, S2 SWB chassis, designed to be equipped with a tail-lift, or, alternatively, a HIAB capable of lifting Barbara, in her power-chair, through the passenger door, and into the space vacated by removing the complete seat box.

Order a new chassis, with a detachable cross member modified to support an electric motor to drive the rear axle

40 horsepower electric motors, intended for canal narrow boats, are available for about £5,000, with photographs suggesting that they are relatively small, with the necessary brackets, and with a drive flange intended to mate up to a regular Hardy Spicer U/J. It would not be difficult (only £5,000, to fit a second motor to drive the front axle.

Alternatively, a gantry could be hung off the front of the clutch cover, with a couple of U/Js to compensate for any mis-alignment, and extending forwards, to carry the drive motor in the conventional place. The intermediate gears would be un-necessary, other than to splash/pump oil around the primary and mainshaft bearings. Having reduction gears available may compensate for reduced power in the battery.

I suspect the "First Overland" 80" Land Rovers had only a smidgen over 40BHP to drag themselves and laden trailers, through the Third World, all the way to Singapore. I read First Overland, while serving at RAF Sharjah (think Dubai) in 1960-1961. My daughter presented me with a copy for Xmas last year.

I am trying to trace which magazine ((possibly "Cars and Conversions" ) featured a home-brewed battery powered Triumph Herald, in the mid-1980s. Does anybody here know? I doubt that the builder had access to batteries other than regular car "starter" batteries. I have vague memories of the photos showing photos of the batteries filling the under-bonnet space.

The canal boat motor was listed as 40 volts. Hmmm! 3 x 12 volts = 36 volts, but 4 x 12 volts = 48 volts. Too little, or too much. 7 x 6 volts = 42 volts, which should be acceptable.  Would I need one battery charger per battery? Visions of multiply double 13A switch sockets nailed to my front wall. 

My understanding is that wiring batteries in SERIES gives increased voltage, so higher power, and wiring batteries in PARALLEL gives the same power as one battery, but they will deliver that power for longer.

My brain hurts!

602

PS. Referring to those (yellow?) emergency starter thingies (probably cheaper to buy, than calling out RESCUE just once, if you do not have HOME START on your contract). Can I assume the packs give a short sharp boost, but do not have the capacity for a sustained drain?

[scotty38]

Sounds to me like Barbara could do with something quickly so I'd avoid employing Heath Robinson to help out here 

[diffwhine]

I'm inclined to agree.

What is available under the Motability scheme or is that a non starter? I remember when we had a Peugeot car/van type thing for my Grandmother and her electric wheelchair. When she sadly went, I was tasked with selling it. It was not on Motability, but had been bought brand new two years previously and only did 4000 miles. I really struggled to sell it because the new vehicles on the Motability schemes were far batter value. I pretty much ended up giving it away. Now I wish I'd kept it for shunting engine and gearboxes about!

Maybe shrink down to just one wheel chair accessible vehicle and keep the Land Rover projects as concepts rather than something you want to fight with for who knows how long?

[Birdsnest55]

John electric WAV's are expensive, the cost and depreciaton will be no better than a Diesel WAV.
If you get DLA or PIP with the extra allowance, you will could get a mobility vehicle, you may have to pay an upfront cost.
There is one draw back which annoys me, the rules are that if the vehicle is registered/supplied for another person, you cannot drive it for personal use. This gives me great problems as I have to take my wife with me if I have an hospital appointment. Shopping for the family is covered.
Here is an example for Electric WAV pricing.

https://www.wavsgb.com/electric-wheelchair-accessible-vehicles-for-sale

Paul

[Craig T]

The first overland Land Rovers were 86" station wagons with a claimed 52 Bhp. They didn't use trailers for the expedition and they did struggle with climbing roads at higher altitudes.

A 40 hp electric motor only running on 4 or 5 lead acid batteries will likely not move the weight of a Land Rover and if it did, the battery life would be a matter of a few miles. To get a decent range you would need to fill the Land Rover with batteries but then the weight increases so you need more power. Land Rover themselves tried it in the past and it was fine around the factory at barely walking pace and where you could charge it again every time it was used but, little use anywhere else.

As mentioned, buy something already made, petrol or Diesel, be it new or second hand. You won't have any insurance problems then, it will be ready in a matter of a few weeks and no messing around with substantially modified vehicles and trying to get it registered for the road.

Craig.

[GlenAnderson]

Lots of fit and able people struggle to build a standard Land-Rover from scratch in any kind of timeframe. My 109" has been a "work in progress" for very nearly thirty years. How long do you think you realistically have to complete a project like this?

Buy something already done.

Or, better still, pay for an accessible taxi that comes with an able-bodied driver who's capable of helping you both physically each time you actully need to go anywhere.

[Old Hywel]

If the unfortunate lady cannot get from her bed, thoughts of suitable vehicles are largely irrelevant.

[Wittsend]

Forget building your own - why re-invent the mousetrap

Sadly, there are many people in a similar situation - they are not mobile.
There are - must be many places/dealers offering a variety of WAVs - it's a growing market.
EVs are not the future despite the hype, but maybe for short commuter/shopping type trips.

Seriously consider the taxi option. Workout just what trips you need to make, how many per week, how far. Even if money is not a problem, a taxi when you need it might work out to be more convenient

But - please forget building your own - keep it as a "thought project".

[Worf]

I would just echo what others have said.
A nice pipe dream, but not really a starter.

There is plenty of useful info here, even if you then decide on a second hand vehicle (literally hundreds on Ebay). https://www.motability.co.uk/how-it-works/

Fully electric WAV's have to be huge to accommodate the batteries (remember, they cant go under the floor as it is "dropped" for the wheelchair access) and should be avoided. Depreciation is no different to conventionally powered vehicles.

Whatever you do, you must definitely "try before you buy" to see what vehicle is the most suitable. Perhaps whoever arranges your £care package" can help 

[w3526602]

Seriously consider the taxi option.

Hi Alan,

Thanks, but considered already.

Barbara phoned a couple of taxi firms in MK. Both wanted their minimum "wheelchair rate" for a local journey ... she presumed they were concentrating on the Airport Market.
.
Before her last fall, which resulted in her spending three weeks in hospital while they organised her home-coming, We had tried getting her from her power-chair into the front passenger seat of her Hyundai, to visit her dentist (detached crown). Going was OK, but not getting her back into the car for the return journey. It took twenty minutes struggling, in a public car park, with all the passing rubber-necks having a good shufti.

Google has informed that for a vehicle to be considered a WAV (and therefore exempt from VAT), it must have had a "substantial amount of welding".

Many (most?) of you are aware that I have rebuilt an 88" S1 (Marsland S3), an 88" S2 (Richards S2) and a 109" (Richards S2). None were difficult, just tedious scraping of grot off the mechanical bits. They all required "new" bulkheads too ... I fabricated a "replica" bulkhead for the S1, from drawings that I had done many years previously ... I'll try to find a photo, I think Google know where to find her ... try FEU254 IMAGES. Alan may have a copy on the club files.

Rebuilding a Series is not difficult, it's the dismantling that is soul destroying tedious, but a fat bank account can help.

"Why pay for the rust when the holes are free?"

I have room in my front garden for three electric charging points to be used at the same time.

And now my carer is demanding tat I come for tea .....

602

[GlenAnderson]

I know that you have done many things in the past, from building houses to rebuilding Land-Rovers, but I'd like to remind you the difficulty you had arranging for a key to be cut not so very long ago. I would humbly suggest that your vehicle building days are long past.

A taxi might seem dear at first glance, but given the number of journeys that Barbera is actually likely to take, I would think that the cost of any WAV (whether bought or built) would probably pay for taxis into the next century.

[w3526602]

Hi Glen,

What you say is sensible ... but I can't remember any period in my life when "sensible" was my chosen option.

But nowadays, I have to keep mind that walking hurts, and bending my knees sufficiently to climb into a "Spridget", would be impossible.

However, my current "prime objective" is to knock a hole in our 6ft x 5ft bathroom wall, and another hole in opposing wall in my titchy brick garage 9ft x 21ft externally, and link the holes with a greenhouse frame and blind panels, and convert half of the garage into a "5 piece" bathroom, and the other half into a "man cave", accessed by the existing door from the rear garden. There is room to park three cars in the front garden, or four if we don't mind obstructing our bedroom window. Due to Barbara's infirmities (one crippled arm from birth,and two arthritic knees) we spend our days in the bedroom. I take Wilkie to our daughter's at lunch time, so grandson can give him a walk. On Saturday, our daughter (business bank manager at UK HQ) visits us, sorts us out, and takes Wilkie to the local park. He spends Sundays looking miserable.

Despite her gammy arm, Barbara "historic road rallied" her TVR Vixen, grass auto-tested her Reliant Sabre 6GT (361WYD is now a Historic Racing Car), was pulled, twice on the M4, in excess of 100mph. Both time she was told not do it again. For her 70th birthday, I gave her three laps driving round Silverstone in a Ferrari, hitting 125mph, followed by three laps in an Aston Martin, which she declared to be "cumbersome". As DVLC's Press Officer, she got to drive on the police skid pan, at Hendon, and later criticised a Sergeant Instructor, during a demonstration run .... "We have been driving for 20 minutes, and you have not got higher than third gear!" We are currently doing 85mph". Sgt.Plod replied that he "expected his trainees to be doing 135mph on this stretch of road".

As the Secretary to the DVLC Executive Board, Barbara had to meet the Sec of State at Swansea Station, and take the minutes of the Executive Board monthly meetings. Her first meeting was with Linda Chalker, a lovely lady. Her second meeting was with Tom King (now our MP). Barbara was given 20 minutes notice that SHE would be taking the Chair.

Barbara ended her Civil Service career, as the DVLA delegate to a Deputy Prime Minister's Task Force. All delegates to be considered equal. Most of the delegates were police Chief Superintendents. She let them buy the drinks in the hotel bar. I think she would have preferred to be promoted to SEO, and remain at DVLC, having just passed that promotion board, but the DVLA Chief Executive was very insistent that he wanted her, in her present grade. £££?

As an HEO in the Civil Service, Barbara would have considered equal to Commander James Bond 007, if she was visiting a Royal Navy base. Similarly, as a Captain in the Army, and a Squadron Leader in the RAF.

Married for 58 years, and I still wake up screaming.

602