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[Billy]

Hello folks,
I used my 88 for a dump run with trailer last November and was told I required a permit. Easy, went on line and permit issued straight away by Somerset council. Yesterday I was told I can not use my Land rover with a trailer because it is commercial vehicle. Why? because it is a pickup! My 1965 88 has a full hard top with back door and side mounted rear seats. I revisited the somerset waste partnership web site which referred to M1 classifications. My V5 shows no classification.

Web site shows, "transvers rear seats only with seat belts and no more than 7 passenger seats", because then it becomes an MPV or minibus or even a camper van.  All of which are not allowed entry with a trailer.

Any one else had this problem at "recycling" centers?

Cheers, Bill

[w3526602]

Hi Bill,

You are not the first to hit this problem.

A non-associated problem but similar sort of mentality can often be met in grocery delivery drivers. All our shopping is now delivered ... to the front door, with a reluctance to take it into the kitchen, about another 6 metres. We have found a verbal thankyou, accompanied by a £1 coin, is a great encouragement (usually three deliveries a week), and well worth it. Our team of carers (three visits per day) are happy to put everything into cupboards, fridge and freezer. The biggest problem is remembering to collect cash from the "hole in the wall" (in the newsagents), and changing it into £1 coins, at the counter.

OT ... Many yonks ago, in the days of "serviced" petrol pumps ... it was chucking down with rain. The teenage Pump Dolly wore a bikini.    (Even more OT ... a dig in the ribs from Barbara often indicated that I should cast my eyes around for something worth looking at, like a gaping blouse, or a skirt hooked into knicker elastic.  )

I found similar encouragement at the local tip, would have their staff fighting to empty my Landy and trailer.    I once was frowned at, when I rolled up with a car transporter trailer, well laden, with mutterings about it being a mobile skip.

According to the RTA, both estate cars, and vehicles with drive to all wheels, are regarded as DUAL PURPOSE VEHICLES, but only in the context that they are not restricted to the commercial vehicle speed limits.But it might be worth arguing.

In 1964 (before the 70mph National Speed Limit was introduced) Plod advised me that he had followed me for one mile. My minimum speed was 72mph, and my maximum speed was 80mph. This was in a 1959 850cc Minivan. I can only think that he was driving behind me without lights ... 01.00hrs on an empty A1, he should have been very obvious.

I attended court, and pleaded NOT GUILTY. My defence was that my van was fitted with rear seats, and was therefore a dual-purpose vehicle. The Clerk of the Court said that that was a ruling in the Finance Act. I had been charged under the Road Traffic Act, which required either BOTH seats and windows OR drive to all four wheels.

So ... 40mph over the speed limit, and pleading NOT GUILTY, with all the other perps pleading guilty by post, and apologising for wasting the Courts time, for exceeding a local 40mph limit by just a few MPH, all being fined £10.  My "Beaks" fined my £2, and apologised for having to endorse my licence.

I promptly "bit the bullet", and bought a glazing kit, and a pair of MONODEX sheet metal cutters, total cost, then, of about £25, and a Saturday afternoon's work.

Google ROAD TRAFFIC ACTS ... it's covered in either Para 43, or maybe Para 143. Its been many years since I needed to refer. One endorsement since I started driving in 1957, is one too many.

That (otherwise) unmodified 850cc Minivan was stupidly quick.

602

[dartymoor]

Such places are full of jobsworths who delight in making life difficult. Councils would rather you didn't use them so seem to encourage difficult behaviour. I have a real issue with this since it directly encourages fly tipping. We pay for that service which is a legal requirement for them to provide, yet we are often treated like they're doing us a favour.

I had this problem regularly when disposing of donated goods for a charity, which had an exception and permission to dump with an actual van. I've found "going around again" worked once, and going on a different day when someone else was there, but that's not a real solution - so I would encourage printing out the requirements and arguing the point (politely) at the time. If he refuses, then get his name and complain to the council directly. Keep pushing.

[Peter Holden]

How does your V5 define your body type.

If it is utility or utility 4X4 then argue the toss as DVLA are not decribing it as a pickup.

Fortunately we dont have such problems yet in Lancashire

Peter

[Alan Drover]

Millennia ago I had a stupidly quick 850cc Minivan but it had rear side windows. I saw an indicated 90mph on the speedo.
I can't remember if I registered my Land Rover for ti visits. I used to have a permit but it's such a faff trying to get to the tip nowadays I haven't been for several years. A regular at my drinking hole has a waste and scrap metal permit and he takes suitable stuff away.

[Ian F]

In Yorkshire I visited the local recycling centre in the S2a (SWB canvas full tilt). As I rolled in the "assistant" hurried over to look in the back. As I had the two side mounted bench seats in place my visit was declared legitimate. If the seats had not been in place I would have been barred from unloading as the vehicle would then have been a commercial.
This authority also charges for taking garden waste and for any delivery to the centre of "rubble" etc.

Much better in Fife, where I have always had no problems and genuine assistance.

Ian F

[diffwhine]

The whole thing is a farce. The purpose is to stop disposal of commercial waste in recycling centres. Plenty of people own pickups as private vehicles these days and trying to apply M1/N1 rules to a 60 year old Land Rover is just jobsworth nit picking. I haven't been to a centre round here yet with a Land Rover, but when I was near Godalming, the centre staff never queried it - even when I turned up several times in a client's 110 Hard Top which is clearly a commercial vehicle (borrowed specifically for the job I might add).

The problem is that unless you are lucky, like I have been with SITA at Godalming, the jobsworths seem to err on the side of caution and now know that people are less likely to get stroppy about it given that many staff now carry body worn cameras.

As per dartymoor's comment - it is a service we are paying for and the arrogance defeats me. I tend to find though that if you treat them with a degree of courtesy and respect, it goes a long way to getting past all that baloney.

The sort of people who try and push commercial waste through a residential recycling facility are probably the same low life who will happily fly tip it anyway, so the whole argument is pointless.

Reading these posts, just goes to prove that it is open to common sense, interpretation of the rules and where you live. There is clearly no common standard.

[Wittsend]

Reading these posts, just goes to prove that it is open to common sense, interpretation of the rules and where you live. There is clearly no common standard.

There is no common sense in this and many other matters.

The problem is that each fiefdom makes up it's own rules

Remember this, the local elections are coming up soon.

You've paid for this "service"


 

[Ian F]

We all know about the problems with fly tipping, and in many cases the Local Authority are ultimately going to foot the bill for clearing up the mess.
Much better surely for recycling centres to encourage ALL waste to be delivered there, even if that means no charge for small quantities of commercial waste from the back of small vans (which I strongly suspect are the main culprits when it comes to fly tipping.

Ian F

[Old Hywel]

Our local Household Waste Recycling Centre requires a booked appointment. Upon arriving on site, having negotiated several hundred yards (metres, even) of viciously potholed roadway, you need to provide a printed copy of your appointment together with proof of ID.
Anything other than a private car requires a permit, £15.50, single use.
Anything bigger than SWB van, forget it.

[AlexB]

Each authority will have it's own version of life

As said before, it's to stop commercial / semi commercial (jobbing builders / handymen) from freeloading on ratepayers

Here in Kirklees, it is accepted that folk own and drive commercial vehicles and not cars.
The workaround is that 12 visits per year are allowed Also a trailer (less than 6ft long) is also allowed 12 visits per year
Seems reasonable to me

[Rory]

I encountered the same at Yeovil tip.

Every time I went there they quoted something different to stop me emptying.

It’s a pick up.

No it has seats in the back.

It’s a commercial .

No I do not run a business.

It’s over weight.

It ways less than that mondao.

They soon stopped bothering me. It was always one plank that did it too!

[crumbly65]

So far, I’m very lucky with our local tip.

They do require commercial vehicles (vans, with or without trailers) and other commercial waste to have a permit, but in over 20 years they have never challenged my 88” with side seats and tilt.

In fact, when they are ( rarely) not busy, the guys will often have a chat and banter about my SII.

My view is that if you do have difficult, obstructive staff at a Local Authority run tip, then a letter of complaint to the Local Authority is the way to go. You should address your letter to the Authority’s Chief Executive, and copy in the elected Council member responsible for the tip, and the Leader of the Council (or Mayor). 
I would ask in the letter, for a definitive statement of rules, and clarification of what vehicles are considered commercial.  Keep a copy of the letter handy for whenever you subsequently visit the tip.

Back your letter writing up with a phone call to the Councillor, try to develop a simple reasonable relationship ,explaining the issue, with dates, times etc.

It might seem a lot of hassle, but it’s a lot less than getting hassle every time you visit a tip and get grief.  And you should only need to do it once……

It does help to be concerned about fly- tipping when you have the conversation, to understand the financial pressures on Local Authorities, but to emphasise, as has been said, this is a service we pay for through our council taxes.

That should usually result in a degree of change in the tip

[GHOBHW]

terrible with rules in south yorkshire too, used it in my land rover with a full roof and no seats in the back, used to give me trouble everytime, but calmed down a bit recently.
in my old 130 i had to get a permit to go in.
around here, late sunday is the best time, you could turn up with anything and noone cares.

they pay a million a year to clean up fly tipping, they'd be better off opening a large tip to every kind of traffic and letting them dump anything, all in one spot, saves on the cleanup, which is only ever half done anyway...

[Alan Drover]

I:ve just registered my Series 3 hard top with Hants County Council and they advised me to ring the local tip. I spoke to the site manager who was very helpful and said there would be no problems in using the Land Rover to bring rubbish.