Quote from: NoBeardNoTopKnot on Oct 20, 2023, 02:55 PMUnless you're going to sell it, I'll never grasp the obsession for right number this; matched reg that? Mine's a moving shed of bits. I don't know what it is, doubt I ever will. I realise I'm supposed to get all earnest about this, I do try. Honest.

I agree that some are obsessed by matching numbers but when trying to register a vehicle I think they help ?

Especially when the seller makes no secret of the fact he wasn't able to get it registered in Morocco. Nor in Switzerland, apparently, because in the Ricardo-advert it still has Italian plates and papers...
Richard

Hi,

RAF Bomb Squad vehicles were blue-grey with RED front wings.

I don't know if other services(Army, Navy, etc) also had their own bomb squads.

602 (Who's black 1959 Mk.1 Minivan was waved at by drivers of police cars. Why? Mine had a chrome grill.

It was not a RAF vehicle. It was commissioned by a former Italian WW2 soldier who started a company, after the war, that still exists, to search for, find and dispose of unexploded bombs. He ordered it at Farnell's. Anyway, Here's the story on the site of the Italian auction house.

I'm almost tempted to ask the seller for a picture of the chassis nr on the chassis...

Richard

It's not easy to have matching numbers on an old vehicle if you intend to keep using it, stuff wears out and gets changed, if you really want matching numbers the best way is to buy a new car!

No such thing as matching numbers

I can explain but you would die of boredome

Peter

Don't get me wrong, it's not boring, not one bit. If... if, it's a pile of spares with dubious antecedence, and something 'the powers that be' won't register. This when in all sense, rather than it meet a worse fate, they probably should, *then* it's a big issue.

But that's about bureaucrats. And yes, I know we have to have them.

However this now creeps into classic-car circles, and,  it does a lot, I do wonder.
 

Quote from: Peter Holden on Oct 20, 2023, 07:49 PMNo such thing as matching numbers

I can explain but you would die of boredome

I'm intrigued. Confusius say: Man with Land Rover never gets bored...
Richard

I will explain tomorrow

Peter

Ready to be bored.

I will take genuine 1958, 1958 model year land rovers as i have one.

Mine is a SWB home market petrol built in May 58.  The number is 141800567 - home market SWB petrols are designated 1418.

There are 9 other 1958 designations - with some numbers starting 1428 etc covering such things as LHD, export, LWB.  There are 2 ranges of engines 2L petrols for SWBs that start 1418, the original engine for mine is 141801846. then there are the 2.25 petrols that went in the LWBs, add to that the diesels.  There are 4 ranges of gearboxes etc.  So the numbers cannot possibly match.

The best that can be said is that the engine numbers etc are within the range that could have been fitted to a particular chassis number.

land rover build books only record the engine number.  If you are lucky when a vehicle was first registered the engine number was recorded as was mine.

So as you see the matching numbers is a myth.  You cannot have a vehicle whose chassis, engine and gearbox numbers match

Peter

Thanks for that explanation Peter, makes sense and explains the complexity of the variations possible.

In the MG world, as far as I am aware, the term "matching numbers" is used in a somewhat different way. It indicates that the MG is fitted with the engine indicated in the factory build sheet. MG recorded engine numbers routinely. Some sellers may use the term in a looser way to indicate that the vehicle has "period correct" numbers. I wouldn't regard these as "matching numbers" vehicles though.
For example MGBs and MG midgets regularly have engines from other Morris or Austin vehicles which were also fitted with A or B series engines. These engines may appear to be the same as MG engines but often differ in detail. These are not "matching number" vehicles in my opinion.

Apologies for boring everyone with non-Land Rover trivia!

Ian F

I think we all tend to get bound by numbers

I used to own and still have the title to R860147 a 1948 land rover, by chance we still have the engine.  In 1948 there was only 1 range of chassis numbers but the engine number didnt match.  The engine is 860226, very close but asthey say no cigar

Peter

Zzzzzzzzzzz

No, thanks Peter. Not boring at all.
Richard

I recall a number of Defender owners getting caught up in a .'matching numbers' debacle a few years ago.
Unfortunately their ViN numbers matched those of vehicles 25 years younger than they actually where and as such they where deemed illegal imports and set for the crusher.
Fortunately one of them was a Lawyer who fought the case. The Department of Homeland Security had based it's 'evidence' on the last six numbers, ignoring the first four. The last six are recycled periodically and thus the confusion.
You think they would know better ? On many a modern LandRover and probably other makes the last six digits will be duplicated across the range with the two preceding letters setting the model/year designation.
Which is another reason why I am glad we have a good VRO for matters such arising. 

If we want a 'matching number' fine. it's your party.

My great fear is where adherents to the 'matching number' ethos damn perfectly reasonable vehicles. The Swiss/Italian example featured here is not my 'thing', however it's perfectly fine for someone. For reasons I don't care, it appears to be reduced to scrap-metal or parts-bin status? Which is wrong.

Why, when there's nothing truly 'wrong' with it. Certainly it's an opinion a strategically aimed cattle-prod will change.

Who or what could possibly make this vehicle so wrong, so wrong, it can't be waved thru'?

1) Does the gieger-counter we wave over it start to click?
2) Is there a bomb in the thing?
3) Is it ticking?

There can only be the shortest list of REAL, proper and serious reasons a vehicle can't be registered. The number on it, is not one of them.

And it's certainly our job within the classic-car fraternity to wave it thru'.

If it hasn't got a number, and the bureaucrat wants one, the bureacrat should assign one, or accept the one given. Done.